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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

crs1026

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I just had to poke at the Oshawa platform layout a bit more. The northmost platform at present is a siding track connected to the Kingston Sub, and accessible from the north. No bridge is needed at the moment, but if a GO Bowmanville track is extended towards Bowmanville, that bridge will need a new section added (it's likely roughed in already) and the only access to VIA will be by going up and over.

Seems unlikely that the current south GO track could be bent up and through the gap on the north side of the existing bridge stairway, due to curvature. So it is indeed a puzzle as to GO's intention. Given that the latest plan is for 2WAD all the way to Bowmanville, one would expect GO to want two tracks through the depot. The change in the layout of the stub tracks could be interim, I suppose.

- Paul
 

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generalcanada

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^ the date on the plan says October 2020. The Bowmanville Extension IBC with the GM spur as the preferred option came out in February 2020. So I'm going to assume/speculate that the team's did some coordination, but given the space/passenger bridge created with the new Oshawa GO station, it doesn't appear to be that difficult to extend a track east for the extension. Don't mind at all if someone disagrees with my speculation/assumption on this.
and that right there is what saying.

Yes, that roll plan is part of the stage 3 presentation of the tpap back in October. thats correct.

But what im saying is that those plans existed at least since February not even 2 weeks after the GM spur announcement was made. Therefore It is impossible to have it taken into account considering the fact that the tpap plans most definitely had some lead up time to it

Heres the roll plan from february: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sites/default/files/lse_roll_plan_combined.pdf

Heres the roll plan from the Round 3 consultation open house: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sites/default/files/lse_roll_plan_combined.pdf

Those tracks exist in both presentations

Also theres this:
1609436871126.png



With that said, is it easier to extend that track in the future? possibly, but again thats a completely different conversation for 5 years from now
 

Allandale25

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^ I'm not even sure what we're debating anymore in terms of timing or what point your trying to make. That said, I'll correct my record above. It was in fact May 2019 is when Metrolinx said there were four options for the Bowmanville Extension. It wasn't until December 2019 at a townhall they said they reached an agreement with CP Rail for the option to use the GM Spur bridge over the 401, which was an indication on which of the four options they were going with. Video here timemarked to the specific comment:
The IBC then came out in February 2020 confirming the option chosen.

So, a few factors. The new GO/VIA station was designed to allow for an extension and the bridge piece to be added as @crs1026 mentioned above. That was well before the "four option" discussion or the TPAP. I'm just saying whatever team worked on the Bowmanville Extension and the TPAP (may have even been the same team), would have be aware of future options for the extension. In my view, it looks like a side benefit of the TPAP design for Oshawa is that it could benefit/assist with the Bowmanville Extension. Great.

The drawings you provided from the past are helpful for context, the most recent drawings I posted that became public in the last few days provide a more zoomed in view, which is great. The next step for the Bowmanville Extension, assuming funding continues for it, is more detailed design and public drawings, which I assume we will see well before five years from now.

I just checked the GO Bowmanville Extension document page and there was a September 2020 notice that investigation work is happening.

"What Work is Taking Place?
Along the CP-owned corridor there will be geo-technical investigative work underway beginning in September. This work is to collect information for the future Bowmanville Extension Project between Oshawa GO Station and Regional Road #57 in Bowmanville. The geo-technical work is necessary preliminary works in advance of Bowmanville Expansion construction. This work will be ongoing for a few months."


In looking at the map provided and how close the Thornton's Corner East Station is to the existing Oshawa Station, maybe the Bowmanville Extension trains won't stop at Oshawa and the trains will just pass by the new platform on the north side. I haven't looked at the IBC lately to remember if it has any service details for the GM spur option.

So one would hope there would be more details in 2021 on the Bowmanville Extension progress. Given the political pressure in Durham for the Extension, I don't think it will take five years to get more news or have a conversation about any changes/track expansion at the Oshawa GO Station.
 

crs1026

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The UT server is not playing nice today, and the two images I had tried to post somehow got deleted. I'm trying again. You can see the gap that would be available for extensions, and you can see how the current stub tracks aren't very well aligned to an extension.

- Paul

Oshawa a.jpg
Oshawa b.jpg
 

Allandale25

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This could go under GO Construction, but I'll put it here since I'm going to refer to the Bowmanville Extension. I wonder if the drawing below from PDF page 40 here provides some insight for what may happen at the Oshawa Station for the Bowmanville Extension. Source: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/en/content/new-track-facilities-environmental-project-report

View attachment 291673

Dashed lined for the Extension added below. Not sure if a second track would extend under the new Oshawa Station platform bridge (picture here looking west towards the existing GO tracks).

View attachment 291674

I'll correct my record again because I hadn't realized that the Bowmanville Extension IBC provided concept plan for the changes to the Oshawa GO Station. PDF page 81 here.

So with this latest track plan from the TPAP, it provides some guidance on what may happen at Oshawa. The only the the IBC drawing doesn't show is that new north platform and two stub tracks.

Screen Shot 2020-12-31 at 1.58.12 PM.png
 

generalcanada

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I'll correct my record again because I hadn't realized that the Bowmanville Extension IBC provided concept plan for the changes to the Oshawa GO Station. PDF page 81 here.

So with this latest track plan from the TPAP, it provides some guidance on what may happen at Oshawa. The only the the IBC drawing doesn't show is that new north platform and two stub tracks.

View attachment 291792
This is what i have been trying to say,

The bowmanville expansion and TPAP are 2 completely separate projects with 2 completely separate station designs.

The TPAP design WILL happen thats for sure.

The only question now is how the bowmanville expansion will work with the new station.

As for my 5 years comment, that was a pessimistic comment noting the snails pace of the bowmanville extension and also most other transit projects in the region in the last 20 years

Remember the original plan had the Oshawa go being torn down and moved north of the 401 via a bridge
 

robmausser

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I'll correct my record again because I hadn't realized that the Bowmanville Extension IBC provided concept plan for the changes to the Oshawa GO Station. PDF page 81 here.

So with this latest track plan from the TPAP, it provides some guidance on what may happen at Oshawa. The only the the IBC drawing doesn't show is that new north platform and two stub tracks.

View attachment 291792

Existing structure to be demolished? They JUST BUILT IT! Seriously??? Am I missing something here? They didnt design the new Oshawa GO station to allow for the tracks to continue to Bowmanville??
 

ARG1

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Existing structure to be demolished? They JUST BUILT IT! Seriously??? Am I missing something here? They didnt design the new Oshawa GO station to allow for the tracks to continue to Bowmanville??
Get ready for more. In a few years we'll rebuild the Stouffville line platforms to accommodate level boarding across the entire platform.
 

Mcurtis

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As someone not from that area of the province has the expansion to Bowmanville always been something that was on the table or talked about? or was that a pet project introduced by the government on its way out that was allowed to continue. It seems baffling to be that the Oshawa Go Station was underbuilt or the future expansion plans disregarded that it would need to essentially be completely demolished and rebuilt in less than 5 years.
 

generalcanada

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As someone not from that area of the province has the expansion to Bowmanville always been something that was on the table or talked about? or was that a pet project introduced by the government on its way out that was allowed to continue. It seems baffling to be that the Oshawa Go Station was underbuilt or the future expansion plans disregarded that it would need to essentially be completely demolished and rebuilt in less than 5 years.
Its basically always been a thing since that '08 metrolinx region-wide plan.

2011 is when it really picked up

As for the go station thing... Well the original plan was to move it north of the 401 and close the existing one. from there it basically sat in the planning stage for years, and unrelated projects like this go expansion TPAP force changes to be made to it
 

Allandale25

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It doesn't look like to me the entire new GO Oshawa Station and platform bridges need to be demolished when comparing the TPAP plan and the GO Bowmanville Extension Option 2 (GM Spur) Oshawa Station plan.

It appears that only a portion of the north side pedestrian bridge structure would need to be demolished and rebuilt to the east, and the low hanging canopy. Given the small scale, I don't see the big deal in the bigger picture.

TPAP to GO Bowmanville Ext Option 2 Oshawa.png


Here's a rough comparison I've done to a Google Map. Red shows what will be demolished, the orange structure to the right would be added for the bridge. Maybe they could even just reuse and shift the existing bridge. Blue lines are the tunnel under the extended track.

Comparison.png
 
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crs1026

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^Well, the VIA siding track has lost its platform, so it likely no longer has any purpose.... it's not that old. That's a waste.

The north stairs may be retainable, but the greyed out area does suggest the elevator shaft and stairways are both being moved. That's a waste of the original construction. I'm acutally surprised by that since, as you suggest, they could just build a second bridgeway in the orange area, and keep the existing structure.

To reuse the bridge, VIA would lose all access to its south platform while the work was being done. I'd say that's not doable.

- Paul
 

Allandale25

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^ Sorry, good point. The existing bridge isn't as long as what's needed (as shown in orange). So probably best to just create a new one.
 

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