GO Transit Midtown Corridor

[DonValleyRainbow]

This is indirectly linked with the 407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link or Peterborough Commuter Rail threads, but I wanted to start a new thread for three future GO Transit corridors listed in The Big Move:

1. Crosstown line: CP North Toronto subdivision - West Toronto Diamond to McCowan Road (#8)
2. Havelock line: CP Havelock subdivision - McCowan Road to Highway 7 (#13)
3. Seaton line: CP Belleville subdivision - McCowan Road to Brock Road (#14)

Note: The Big Move was amended in February 2013, and the Havelock line was moved from the 15- to the 25-year plan, because of "very modest ridership potential and significant infrastructure and operational challenges related to the Agincourt rail yards."

They are along Canadian Pacific-owned and operated lines cutting through midtown Toronto to Agincourt, where they branch out into west Durham and southeast York. These can be lumped together and referred to to as the 'Midtown Corridor'.

The basic infrastructure requirement/constraint is use of the existing right-of-way; this is CP's main east-west route between southwestern Ontario and Quebec, and their link to the Mactier subdivision that takes them to northern Ontario and western Canada. This is where talk about the 407 Freight Bypass/Missing Link usually comes in.

(It is assumed that a theoretical bypass could take CN and CP freight to Halwest (junction southeast of Bramalea GO), and potentially take CP further parallel to CN's Halton and York subdivisions. This would move CP off of the Milton lines and the North Toronto subdivision, freeing them up for GO Transit use, and foregoing costly corridor expansion work. Further detailed analysis is required (and hopefully ongoing) to determine if costs of constructing a new corridor for freight outweighs the costs of expanding in the existing corridors.)

This is discussion best left to the 407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link thread IMO. But there are other elements worth exploring, beyond this basic requirement to expand beside or relocate CP traffic. Some of the topics to potentially discuss in this thread:

• Corridor routing/realignments
• Potential station locations and design
• Integration with existing/future local rapid transit
• Service arrangements, potential existing service integrations
• Options for dealing with CP's yard in Agincourt

 

[Kitsune]

With rail safety these days and public perception of what they carry ... I dont think there is any appetite to expand the mid town corridor.

 

[drum118]

As it stands today, GO trains will run on the south side of the current CP tracks from Lambton Yards to the west of CP Agincourt Yard.

I stand to be corrected, but didn't Metrolinx buy tracks on the north side of CP Agincourt Yard a few years ago. If so, a fly-under will have to be built west of the yard to get to those track.

A fair number of current crossing would have to be close or grade separated to meet the plan 15 minute service on the line. A lot of noise walls will also have to be built.

 

[Neil]

If there was a Summerhill station, I think it would have to be "PM only" because dumping a GO train's worth of passengers on the Yonge line would be a bad idea.

 

[Translude15]

If there was a Summerhill station, I think it would have to be "PM only" because dumping a GO train's worth of passengers on the Yonge line would be a bad idea.

Not unless the DRL Long is built.

 

[Amare]

If there was a Summerhill station, I think it would have to be "PM only" because dumping a GO train's worth of passengers on the Yonge line would be a bad idea.

This is Metrolinx and the Province of Ontario we're talking about, the two groups thinking about extending the Yonge Line to Richmond Hill despite to numerous warnings that the Yonge Line is overcapacity. I dont think that would even be a consideration for either of them.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

This is Metrolinx and the Province of Ontario we're talking about, the two groups thinking about extending the Yonge Line to Richmond Hill despite to numerous warnings that the Yonge Line is overcapacity. I dont think that would even be a consideration for either of them.

I think the risk of this issue is overblown. What are the chances that the corridor will be expanded/CP bypass built, and a south entrance+link to Summerhill station is built before Relief Line is built?

 

[drum118]

Again, everyone think all riders want to go south when in fact some want to go north from Summerhill/Dupont station. Not every rider wants to go to King or Queen but north of them.

At the same time, you will have riders going east or west off the Line 1 since it will be faster than use line 2 or the Crosstown line. It open up a new market to how riders can travel where they want to go in the first place as well a faster route.

As for the Yonge extension, only happens after the full DRL is built to Finch/Steeles and part of the new Yonge Express Line that will need to be built around 2050. Otherwise you will never get on a train and only do so if you can make your way to a spot on the platform.

 

[drum118]

I think the risk of this issue is overblown. What are the chances that the corridor will be expanded/CP bypass built, and a south entrance+link to Summerhill station is built before Relief Line is built?

I would be surprise to see this crosstown line built before 2035-40. Until RER and 15 minute service is in place, no money for this line.

 

[Steve X]

Again, everyone think all riders want to go south when in fact some want to go north from Summerhill/Dupont station. Not every rider wants to go to King or Queen but north of them.

At the same time, you will have riders going east or west off the Line 1 since it will be faster than use line 2 or the Crosstown line. It open up a new market to how riders can travel where they want to go in the first place as well a faster route.

As for the Yonge extension, only happens after the full DRL is built to Finch/Steeles and part of the new Yonge Express Line that will need to be built around 2050. Otherwise you will never get on a train and only do so if you can make your way to a spot on the platform.

Well said. If people wanted to go downtown, they will take a train that ends up at Union and take the subway back north for a couple of station. Who would be stupid enough to go to Summerhill and attempt to get on? They can just bypass Summerhill in the meantime.

A midtown corridor is an excellent idea. It will remove hundreds of cars when traveling from Mississauga to Scarborough by transit is reduced by half. Kipling to Malvern would only take half an hour oppose to one an a half hours with the TTC. With the Milton/Lakeshore East line today, one still has to take the subway at Main Stn/Danforth GO after transferring GO trains at Union, then the SRT and a bus totaling over an hour. A saving of only 15-20 minutes with GO in AM rush.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

So here's something I'd like to hear opinions on.

From what I have seen, it appears that the assumption is a midtown train would stop at Eglinton, where passengers could transfer to the Crosstown via steps to the Leslie stop. Is this preferable to trying to make a stop at Don Mills and making a connection to Relief Line North?

Either way, some passengers will have to travel to the Don Mills interchange if they want to use the other line, so I guess this is asking for uneducated guesses as to where the greater demand would be for commuters from west Durham and southeast York: north-south along Don Mills, or east-west across midtown?

 

[robmausser]

If there was a Summerhill station, I think it would have to be "PM only" because dumping a GO train's worth of passengers on the Yonge line would be a bad idea.

I think a solution is to also build a station at Dupont Subway station on the Spadina Line, which is not over capacity, and only operate to there during rush hour to drop people off. Summerhill during rush hour will be boarding only.

Or, still offer Summerhill but if people transfer southbound on the subway from just coming off the Midtown GO (PRESTO can track this) then it will cost them more than using Dupont subway station to transfer.

Say, subway is $2 on top of GO fare from Summerhill south, and $1 from Dupont.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think a solution is to also build a station at Dupont Subway station on the Spadina Line, which is not over capacity, and only operate to there during rush hour to drop people off. Summerhill during rush hour will be boarding only.

When the doors open to allow people to board....would there be big strong staff members inside the cars to prevent people from getting off?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I suppose the question could be asked. At what cost can we justify the work of preparing this line for Pickering airport. We don't want another Pearson where the rail line comes near but not close enough to the airport terminal. IIRC the plans called for a spur line into the terminal area.

Just adding in the Pickering airport plan here for reference. Would it make sense to move the terminal closer to the rail line, for example, rather than another spur line? Is the airport to far out into the future to even consider the impacts of decisions made today on the potential airport many years from now?

 

[aquateam]

When the doors open to allow people to board....would there be big strong staff members inside the cars to prevent people from getting off?

I picture a roller-coaster solution, where passengers are held to their seats by harnesses that only release when Dupont station is reached.