GO Transit Midtown Corridor

[Krypto98]

I'm not sure what you are suggesting. On problem with rail along a highway corridor, particularly in the terrain proposed for 413, is that the curves and grades are different. It may be more feasible with 407 but I don't really know. Any proposal to move CN further north takes them further from their yards. Same with CP but there seems to be some talk about moving away from Agincourt anyway. In addition, running freight including dangerous goods through the moraine would face stiff opposition.

If the proposal is to have six tracks in the CP North Toronto corridor, I'm not sure, but don't know, whether the ROW is wide enough. If land acquisition is required, it would be horrendously costly and disruptive. Also, the amount of traffic would be significant, and it still doesn't satisfy concerns of dangerous goods through the city; actually it exacerbates them.

It still comes back to ownership. The carriers have to agree to joint ownership, or the province becomes the owner; with all that goes with that. I'm not sure either carrier would be satisfied with a running rights arrangement.

For the CP North Toronto Sub, the ROW looks wide enough for 3/4 tracks.

For the CN Halton-York Sub I'm not exactly sure but also 4 tracks. If GO were to run trains there from Bramalea to Pickering all the stations would need to be on the south side of the corridor since Mac Yard is on the north and CN also goes north on the Bala.

I have no idea about the terain around the 413 corridor but I imagine alot of bridges would need to be built.

 

[LemonCondo]

Why not invite CDPQ Infra to build an automated light metro line (like the REM or the Ontario Line) all the way from Cooksville to Steeles Ave. The REM in Montreal is banking on redevelopment of underutilized lands next to the track. This route would also take the TTC subway to Mississauga and the Hurontario. (Something that was planned but never funded.) It would be well connected with the Hurontario LRT, Line 2, Line 1, Line 5, probably the Ontario Line, and multiple GO lines. Additionally it would provide more rapid transit to Scarborough and add even more "crosstown" rapid transit, which would add further backup for Line 2 and 5. I think this kills about a million birds with one stone, and it would involve minimal tunneling. Think big Toronto!

 

[kEiThZ]

Why not invite CDPQ Infra to build an automated light metro line (like the REM or the Ontario Line) all the way from Cooksville to Steeles Ave.

This really should be a GO RER line.

 

[micheal_can]

This really should be a GO RER line.

I don't see this being anything but an RER line.

 

[LemonCondo]

This really should be a GO RER line.

I don't see this being anything but an RER line.

Why though? It's not like there is much of anything to connect beyond the borders of Toronto and Mississauga along the right away. I do not think it is likely that Metrolinx would fully electrify this line from the get-go, so it would be utilized by our huge and lumbering diesel locomotives. Maybe a fully automated light metro is too ambitious (Although my proposed route would still be shorter then the REM.) Why not have Metrolinx run some DMU or DEMU trains up and down the line, so that they can actually serve closely spaced stations through the area while making good time. (2.5 km spacing?) This would be more useful for this line since you can serve local stops (Both already built up ones and ones for redevelopment of underutilized land.) as well as make connections to many other high order transit lines in a quick and efficient manner. You could call it a GO line, or you could call it a TTC subway line. (Like the Trillium Line in Ottawa.) Either way it would have to be operated by Metrolinx since the TTC has zero mainline operation experience. I still think a REM like service would be incredible here, but this alternative idea would be a lot cheaper. (But again, you could get CDPQ to build it.) Possible rolling stock for this alternative idea include the Alstom Coradia LINT (DMU), or the much newer Stadler FLIRT (DEMU). I bring up these specific models due to them already having been deployed in North America. (Like Ottawa.)

Alstom Coradia LINT

Stadler FLIRT

 

[nfitz]

Why not invite CDPQ Infra to build an automated light metro line (like the REM or the Ontario Line) all the way from Cooksville to Steeles Ave.

I'm confused - Cooksville is at Dundas/Hurontario. The shortest distance from Cooksville to Steeles is right up Hurontario - where they are now building the Hazel Line.

I'm not sure what you are proposing here.

edit - oh hang on - you mean Steeles, east of Morningside. If you built it, I don't know why you'd stop at Steeles with the denser piece of Markham just up the track.

Wouldn't staying on the main CP line make more sense? Instead of heading through the middle of the Oak Ridges Moraine and Green Belt, you could instead go through residential areas in Pickering, Ajax, Whitby - even join the Lakeshore line from Oshawa to Bowmanville. And hit Malvern!

Not sure why you go to something like CDPQ - sure, they could bid on it - but I'm not sure why they would.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why though?

1) It's an existing heavy rail corridor.

2) It connects to numerous GO corridors. This makes it easier to share existing fleets and yards.

Introducing a new fleet type to GO or adding a whole new type of complex operation to the TTC is expensive, complicated and risky.

If you're concerned about frequency, fleet type is sort of irrelevant here. They could run shorter trains every 5 mins if they wanted to. They are only limited by the capacity of the line.

 

[micheal_can]

Why though? It's not like there is much of anything to connect beyond the borders of Toronto and Mississauga along the right away. I do not think it is likely that Metrolinx would fully electrify this line from the get-go, so it would be utilized by our huge and lumbering diesel locomotives. Maybe a fully automated light metro is too ambitious (Although my proposed route would still be shorter then the REM.) Why not have Metrolinx run some DMU or DEMU trains up and down the line, so that they can actually serve closely spaced stations through the area while making good time. (2.5 km spacing?) This would be more useful for this line since you can serve local stops (Both already built up ones and ones for redevelopment of underutilized land.) as well as make connections to many other high order transit lines in a quick and efficient manner. You could call it a GO line, or you could call it a TTC subway line. (Like the Trillium Line in Ottawa.) Either way it would have to be operated by Metrolinx since the TTC has zero mainline operation experience. I still think a REM like service would be incredible here, but this alternative idea would be a lot cheaper. (But again, you could get CDPQ to build it.) Possible rolling stock for this alternative idea include the Alstom Coradia LINT (DMU), or the much newer Stadler FLIRT (DEMU). I bring up these specific models due to them already having been deployed in North America. (Like Ottawa.)
View attachment 415828
Alstom Coradia LINT

View attachment 415829
Stadler FLIRT

Let's start that any "light" train likely is not going to happen as it is an existing heavy rail line.
Having said that, maybe it will be something like the Chargers that can be dual mode, and first be diesels.
As a regular GO corridor, I do not see the need for it yet. When the need exists, I feel that most, if not all of GO's trains will be electric or dual mode, so why would they add a totally different thing to their fleet?

 

[LemonCondo]

Let's start that any "light" train likely is not going to happen as it is an existing heavy rail line.
Having said that, maybe it will be something like the Chargers that can be dual mode, and first be diesels.
As a regular GO corridor, I do not see the need for it yet. When the need exists, I feel that most, if not all of GO's trains will be electric or dual mode, so why would they add a totally different thing to their fleet?

The Trillium line operates on a heavy rail line. They use diesel light rail vehicles. Stadler FLIRTs and other "light rail" vehicles are used on heavy mainlines all over the world. Again, it would allow this service to be more nimble since it would not travel super far and serve many stations.

On a slighlty related note, yes, GO will most likely start pulling it's existing bi-level cars with something like a Charger, or some other electric locomotive, but eventually EMUs are coming. They might not be "light" by Euro standards, but they are going to be smaller then what we are used to. Alstom is the rolling stock partner, and the main commuter rolling stock is the Alstom X'Trapolis. Here are the new ones for Melbourne:

Admittedly, we might get the X'Trapolis Cityduplex:

Its up to the consortium!

 

[micheal_can]

The Trillium line operates on a heavy rail line. They use diesel light rail vehicles. Stadler FLIRTs and other "light rail" vehicles are used on heavy mainlines all over the world. Again, it would allow this service to be more nimble since it would not travel super far and serve many stations.

On a slighlty related note, yes, GO will most likely start pulling it's existing bi-level cars with something like a Charger, or some other electric locomotive, but eventually EMUs are coming. They might not be "light" by Euro standards, but they are going to be smaller then what we are used to. Alstom is the rolling stock partner, and the main commuter rolling stock is the Alstom X'Trapolis. Here are the new ones for Melbourne:
View attachment 415931

Admittedly, we might get the X'Trapolis Cityduplex:
View attachment 415932

Its up to the consortium!

What my point was, was that GO is not going to have a unique train set for just 1 line.

 

[LemonCondo]

What my point was, was that GO is not going to have a unique train set for just 1 line.

I get your point. But GO is going to start using multiple different train sets anyway. Continuing with the current diesel locomotives on non-electrified sections (chance they could order bi-modes?), electric locos, and at some point EMUs.

 

[drum118]

Until CP allows more tracks in their corridor line the Milton Line issues, the Crosstown line is DOA east of the KW line since it sees more trains than the Milton Line.

The Crosstown Line idea has been around for decades.

GO needs various type of equipment to match both ridership and type of service.

One thing ML needs to look at is splitting trains into 2 to 3 trains based on ridership and service like they do in Europe. Been on an 8 car train leaving the main station where 4 cars get cut off at X station with the other 4 move on to y station where 2 are cut off leaving the other 2 to go to z. They rejoin again to be an 8 car train returning to the main station. Theses were single level cars.

Then there is the case of an 5 car DD train becoming a 10 car train 30 minutes before the main station to the point it splits at the main station with both going in opposites directions.

 

[micheal_can]

I get your point. But GO is going to start using multiple different train sets anyway. Continuing with the current diesel locomotives on non-electrified sections (chance they could order bi-modes?), electric locos, and at some point EMUs.

There will be a shift from diesel to electric, that is inevitable. What I don't foresee is one special set of DMUs for one line and no other lines using it in the future or at the same time. Proof of this? Take a look at the coaches, they are all virtually the same.Yes, they are rebuilt or new, but all are based on the same design.

 

[kamira51]

Until CP allows more tracks in their corridor line the Milton Line issues, the Crosstown line is DOA east of the KW line since it sees more trains than the Milton Line.

Quick question, how wide is the Milton line CP corridor? Can it even support more tracks without needing to gobble up land?

 

[robmausser]

Why though? It's not like there is much of anything to connect beyond the borders of Toronto and Mississauga along the right away. I do not think it is likely that Metrolinx would fully electrify this line from the get-go, so it would be utilized by our huge and lumbering diesel locomotives. Maybe a fully automated light metro is too ambitious (Although my proposed route would still be shorter then the REM.) Why not have Metrolinx run some DMU or DEMU trains up and down the line, so that they can actually serve closely spaced stations through the area while making good time. (2.5 km spacing?) This would be more useful for this line since you can serve local stops (Both already built up ones and ones for redevelopment of underutilized land.) as well as make connections to many other high order transit lines in a quick and efficient manner. You could call it a GO line, or you could call it a TTC subway line. (Like the Trillium Line in Ottawa.) Either way it would have to be operated by Metrolinx since the TTC has zero mainline operation experience. I still think a REM like service would be incredible here, but this alternative idea would be a lot cheaper. (But again, you could get CDPQ to build it.) Possible rolling stock for this alternative idea include the Alstom Coradia LINT (DMU), or the much newer Stadler FLIRT (DEMU). I bring up these specific models due to them already having been deployed in North America. (Like Ottawa.)
View attachment 415828
Alstom Coradia LINT

View attachment 415829
Stadler FLIRT

I think we should run some of these on the Richmond Hill Line for all-day and weekend service on that line.