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GO Transit Fleet Equipment and other

drum118

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How do you expect to retrofit 1000's of buses effective as of the end of the month? And who's going to pay for it?

If you drive a model ford Model T do you have to retrofit airbags and crash standards as well? Seriously?
Did I say existing buses must have seatbelts???

I said ALL buses being delivery this month and there after MUST have seatbelts. ALL Buses up to September 2021 do not need them install unless X decides to do so. Not a cheap conversion and it will depend on the age of the bus if it does see seatbelts.

Since this is a Federal requirement, it over rules all Province rules that will require the province to update their requirements.

I said the US buses may have to meet the new standards and to get around it is to use buses built before Sept 2021. Since there been talks of using seatbelts in the US for a number of years, this new requirement could kick start the same requirements there now. Their timetable will be different than ours as to when buses must start seeing belts on new buses. Time will tell for this change.
 

lenaitch

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Did I say existing buses must have seatbelts???

I said ALL buses being delivery this month and there after MUST have seatbelts. ALL Buses up to September 2021 do not need them install unless X decides to do so. Not a cheap conversion and it will depend on the age of the bus if it does see seatbelts.

Since this is a Federal requirement, it over rules all Province rules that will require the province to update their requirements.

I said the US buses may have to meet the new standards and to get around it is to use buses built before Sept 2021. Since there been talks of using seatbelts in the US for a number of years, this new requirement could kick start the same requirements there now. Their timetable will be different than ours as to when buses must start seeing belts on new buses. Time will tell for this change.

Retrofitting any vehicle for seatbelts would require an engineering sign-off.

I'm not convinced a change to federal vehicle standards, in and of itself, forces a province's hand regarding usage, although they will no doubt follow suit as there is a huge liability issue. Compliance will be an issue. Daytime running lights have been a federal safety standard since 1980 but there is not a word regarding their usage in the HTA.
 

EnviroTO

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The federal rules are about the ability to sell a product in Canada. Cars being imported from the US are forced to have km/h on the dashboard, but nobody will ever be pulled over for a speedometer that doesn't have km/h.

The law for seatbelts for Ontario says that if there is a seatbelt available you need to use it and if there is a seatbelt that a child restraint if required (weight/age) must be properly secured in the seat. However the Highway Traffic Act says that vehicles that have seating positions without seatbelts, that were manufactured and sold in Canada at a time where they were not required, then the law permits being a driver and a passenger riding without a seatbelt.

Highway traffic act rules put the onus on the driver (it will be interesting how the law will change with driverless vehicles), and public transportation is exempt from child restraint requirements, but because of the fact buses will now come with seatbelts, the highway traffic act rules would put the onus of ensuring everyone is buckled up on the driver. They are looking at changes to the act because it isn't reasonable to put the burden on the driver of a large bus, but I am pretty sure there are no rules in the highway traffic act that can be charged to the passenger, so if there is enforcement of seat belt wearing on the GO it would be through a GO Transit by-law.
 

lenaitch

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The federal rules are about the ability to sell a product in Canada. Cars being imported from the US are forced to have km/h on the dashboard, but nobody will ever be pulled over for a speedometer that doesn't have km/h.

The law for seatbelts for Ontario says that if there is a seatbelt available you need to use it and if there is a seatbelt that a child restraint if required (weight/age) must be properly secured in the seat. However the Highway Traffic Act says that vehicles that have seating positions without seatbelts, that were manufactured and sold in Canada at a time where they were not required, then the law permits being a driver and a passenger riding without a seatbelt.

Highway traffic act rules put the onus on the driver (it will be interesting how the law will change with driverless vehicles), and public transportation is exempt from child restraint requirements, but because of the fact buses will now come with seatbelts, the highway traffic act rules would put the onus of ensuring everyone is buckled up on the driver. They are looking at changes to the act because it isn't reasonable to put the burden on the driver of a large bus, but I am pretty sure there are no rules in the highway traffic act that can be charged to the passenger, so if there is enforcement of seat belt wearing on the GO it would be through a GO Transit by-law.

Passenger liability in the HTA is rare, but there is this (not counting the various qualifying and exempting regulations):

Section 106

Use of seat belt assembly by passenger

(3) Every person who is at least 16 years old and is a passenger in a motor vehicle on a highway shall,
(a) occupy a seating position for which a seat belt assembly has been provided; and
(b) wear the complete seat belt assembly as required by subsection (5). 2006, c. 25, s. 1.
Regarding speedometers, beyond safety standards certification, there is no requirement to have an operating speedometer in Ontario except for buses.
 

cplchanb

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how hard will the drivers enforce this? will they actually pull over to the side of the road and wait until everyone is buckled up or is this one of those liability areas where if you get into an accident with no
seatbelt on you cant sue...
 

EnviroTO

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Passenger liability in the HTA is rare, but there is this (not counting the various qualifying and exempting regulations):

Section 106

Use of seat belt assembly by passenger

(3) Every person who is at least 16 years old and is a passenger in a motor vehicle on a highway shall,
(a) occupy a seating position for which a seat belt assembly has been provided; and
(b) wear the complete seat belt assembly as required by subsection (5). 2006, c. 25, s. 1.
I think even for passenger belts the driver is ultimately the one charged. All the seat belt warning lights show up in front of the driver for a reason.
 

lenaitch

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how hard will the drivers enforce this? will they actually pull over to the side of the road and wait until everyone is buckled up or is this one of those liability areas where if you get into an accident with no
seatbelt on you cant sue...
Well, you can always sue - how successfully might be the question. They have to remove any liability from the driver to make it workable and no doubt the operator unions will be looking into this. A single warning light is meaningless, and a board with 42 lights is pointless.

I think even for passenger belts the driver is ultimately the one charged. All the seat belt warning lights show up in front of the driver for a reason.
[/QUOTE]

I suspect you are right but not for the reasons cited.
 

Richard White

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Well, you can always sue - how successfully might be the question. They have to remove any liability from the driver to make it workable and no doubt the operator unions will be looking into this. A single warning light is meaningless, and a board with 42 lights is pointless.

It's a shame they can't trigger the emergency brakes when the seatbelts arent fastened.
 

innsertnamehere

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The child seat requirements on public transit are quite burdensome as well, no? Hauling a single child seat, yet alone multiple, on public transit seems ridiculous.
 

Bordercollie

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It would prevent the vehicle from moving until everyone is buckled up. It will also teach people not to remove it while the vehicle is in motion.
On a double decker on the upper deck you need to start heading down the stairs before the bus arrives to a stop. Especially at street stops if you wait until the bus is stopped to take your seatbelt off and climb down the stairs it's going to effect schedules.
 

lenaitch

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The child seat requirements on public transit are quite burdensome as well, no? Hauling a single child seat, yet alone multiple, on public transit seems ridiculous.

The burdens of parenthood. The alternative is placing your child in unnecessary risk. Given the proportion of head mass to the rest of the body, an infant can be critically injured from even a hard brake.
It would prevent the vehicle from moving until everyone is buckled up. It will also teach people not to remove it while the vehicle is in motion.

Yes, nothing like having vehicle control in the hands of random passengers, especially when it is moving. Have you ever pulled the emergency brake on an air-brake equipped vehicle?
 

innsertnamehere

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The burdens of parenthood. The alternative is placing your child in unnecessary risk. Given the proportion of head mass to the rest of the body, an infant can be critically injured from even a hard brake.


Yes, nothing like having vehicle control in the hands of random passengers, especially when it is moving. Have you ever pulled the emergency brake on an air-brake equipped vehicle?
So it’s not functionally safe for children to ride public transit basically? It’s not practical to haul child seats onto public transit so you are SOL for regional travel if you are a car-less parent? I’m not one to push safety issues aside but public transit child seat requirements are a whole lot more burdensome than in a private vehicle.
Perhaps the solution is for GO to store some child seats on board that can be used if required?
 

lenaitch

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So it’s not functionally safe for children to ride public transit basically? It’s not practical to haul child seats onto public transit so you are SOL for regional travel if you are a car-less parent? I’m not one to push safety issues aside but public transit child seat requirements are a whole lot more burdensome than in a private vehicle.
Perhaps the solution is for GO to store some child seats on board that can be used if required?

And that might be a solution, provided the carrier, GO or otherwise, is willing to accept some liability (although I assume the parent would still be responsible for installation). I agree that the issue is more of a burden, but that is the society we have created and any variation or risk is fraught with risk which everybody will strive to avoid. Parent lug sportscar-sized strollers onto buses all the time, and some have integral car seats.

To be clear, the recent vehicle standards changes applies to inter-city 'highway' buses, not urban transit. The scheduling and dwell times for inter-city buses have more flexibility. Any consideration of seat belts on urban road transit or school buses is much more complex.
 

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