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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

I hope that if any part of RER is kept its the Bramalea to Unionville section. I've always thought that should be the first section to electrify.

Lakeshore already has 15 minute trains, it can wait. The Bramalea to Unionville with the new stations would transform the city and 905.

That's not how a private operator would look at it (and neither should a public operator). We aren't Kevin Costner in a corn field.

- Along the Lakeshore line there is a proven level of demand (at least every 15 minutes). And as such has the highest economic case for conversion to electrical. Plus has enough tracks at most places to increase this to every 10 minutes (express + all stop)
- Which then creates surplus trains which can be used to build demand on other lines (and during this growth in demand they can build enough tracks for express + all stop)
- whichever line grows the most to have the need for 15 minute service you then electrify
- and then repeat until all lines are electrified (and time the electrification to be at the end of the useful life of the existing diesel stock)

The big bang approach is painfully silly. But it allows someone to bury uneconomic projects in the entire proposal.
 
Toronto is full of hydro wires on every street

Not just Toronto. And honestly, it really sucks that we don't bury hydro wires more in Canada. It looks pretty shabby when you have some nice tourist street with wires running all over on top. This is far, far more bothersome than catenary wires over a rail corridor where nobody is really walking anyway.
 
It would be a mistake for Toronto to make too much of a deal about catenary wires. If they decide it is the best option then they should go ahead. Only when they have 2 systems that offer similar advantages should such things as visual pollution be considered a deciding factor. Yes, no matter how they sugar coat them, catenary looks like crap but priority #1 is what is the best choice for the transportation needs of the city.
 
Not just Toronto. And honestly, it really sucks that we don't bury hydro wires more in Canada. It looks pretty shabby when you have some nice tourist street with wires running all over on top. This is far, far more bothersome than catenary wires over a rail corridor where nobody is really walking anyway.

Yes. Besides how many people will be be living next to these catenary wires or be seeing them compared to hydro wires which are everywhere and people are more exposed to them. I don't see people in uproar and demanding that they be buried and that they are an eyesore. If they use that argument against electrification, then they must have some other ulterior motive for not wanting it...
 
, then they must have some other ulterior motive for not wanting it...

Yep. They don't want to live against a busy rail line. So they are trying other means. Remember the Clean Train Coalition from Weston? They complained about the increase in diesel train traffic and insisted on electrification. I guess the next step is to opposed electrification based on ugly wires.
 
Memories are short it seems.

What's exquisitely delicious is quoting Metrolinx' own words, in print, against them:
Diesel vs. electric trains: study vindicates Clean Train Coalition on debate over rail line to Pearson (but the province is buying diesel cars anyway)

BY JOHN MICHAEL MCGRATH | JANUARY 19, 2011
[...]
UPDATE: We spoke with Ian McConachie of Metrolinx, who had several responses to the CTC’s victory dance. Most regrettably, we were in error when we wrote that the diesel trains Metrolinx is buying would have to be replaced—in fact, the trains will be convertible to electric when the rail lines themselves are ready for them. The costs of conversion, however, are still unknown as Metrolinx is still in negotiation with Sumitomo. McConachie’s more fundamental point was to stress that Metrolinx simply can’t build an electric rail line in time for the 2015 Pan Am games. The environmental assessment process—the bane of infrastructure-builders everywhere—means that “even if we spent $10 billion, we still wouldn’t have something ready for the Pan Am Games.” Upgrading GO is a long-term project that includes replacing rail stock to cleaner-burning diesel, and improving service levels so that “GO becomes more like a subway, where you don’t check the schedule before you go to the station.” Metrolinx, McConachie says, never claimed that electrification wouldn’t improve service or be cheaper to operate, simply that it couldn’t be built in the timeframe they need. (January 19 at 3:53 p.m.)
https://torontolife.com/city/toront...ut-the-province-is-buying-diesel-cars-anyway/

The rusty irony permangenates...Metrolinx is unable to purge every reference of their bizarre claims of 'electrifying' the Nippon Sharyos, even though they've attempted to in their own files.

Westonites were never against the Pearson Express. They were for it, as promised by burghers of QP at the time: Electric not Diesel.
 
The other night I was waiting at the cellphone parking lot at Pearson and can't help but notice the insanely loud noises coming from the UP express trains. No they are not just track noise, they are mostly low frequency diesel engine noises which can be so much louder (more than a squeaky TTC train!). I don't understand how no one complains about the awful sounds produced by these diesels that plague entire neighbourhoods at night, especially if you live near the CP/CN tracks.
 
The other night I was waiting at the cellphone parking lot at Pearson and can't help but notice the insanely loud noises coming from the UP express trains. No they are not just track noise, they are mostly low frequency diesel engine noises which can be so much louder (more than a squeaky TTC train!). I don't understand how no one complains about the awful sounds produced by these diesels that plague entire neighbourhoods at night, especially if you live near the CP/CN tracks.

Through neighbourhoods there are sound barriers. Deflects the sound upwards. If you walk along Dundas West just north of Bloor (for example) you can hear the difference noise levels of a GO vs UP train. And accelerating (which produces more noise). [hint...not much]
 
If you walk along Dundas West just north of Bloor (for example) you can hear the difference noise levels of a GO vs UP train. And accelerating (which produces more noise). [hint...not much]

But neither of them are electric. I wonder how much of a reduction in noise (especially low frequency hums) these EMU trains can provide.
 
But neither of them are electric. I wonder how much of a reduction in noise (especially low frequency hums) these EMU trains can provide.
A huge amount. It's not just the overall sound pressure level that drops, it's also the composition of that sound.

Example: An opera singer and power tool could register the same dB level, and one is far 'sweeter' than the other. 'Loudness' is a good part of that.

Good paper here:
https://www.acoustics.asn.au/conference_proceedings/AAS2013/papers/p99.pdf

No they are not just track noise, they are mostly low frequency diesel engine noises which can be so much louder (more than a squeaky TTC train!).
That's a number of factors at work, one of which is that low frequency and infra sound travel much more freely and further than high frequency sound. Marine fog horns work utilizing that principle. In the case of the UP train, your location as well as the source are factors in perceived sound pressure differences. Low sounds are uni-directional, higher ones tend to beam, and I too have noticed a low freq resonance to the UP exhaust system. Some of them chortle, and I find it pleasant, but some of them sound harsh. I'd suspect that's an indication of an engine or exhaust system problem. The exhausts on them are complex to scrub the emissions, it may be that which is exacerbating it.

You'll notice as well that when it's damp (the 'air is heavier') that low frequency sound propagates more readily due to the atmospheric density increase. That tends to 'damp' higher frequencies, and assist propagation of the lower ones. Again, think 'fog horn'. And there's a third factor when the air is damp and denser: The resonant point of a given system shifts down, as much as 20% in tuned systems, and the 'coupling efficiency' of a source to atmosphere goes up too.

With modern electric propulsion, almost always triple phase induction type motor, the greater sound is from the 'chopper' than the motor's performing work. That's mostly due to inductive core lamination vibration, both transformer(s) and motor laminations, and it's that 'space-ship' sound in the audible mid-range that you hear. You can tell the type of motor control being used by the nature of that sound. Some are a lot quieter than others, some remain the same frequency but the pulse width is modulated, others successively climb in pitch and then drop again like a car's transmission does for engine revs, but it's almost always far quieter than internal combustion.

And sweeter.
 
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