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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

Mercer Rail which is the suburban rail network of Greater Liverpool, has just completed their trial of battery trains and they stated that they exceeded all their expectations. The transit provider wants to completely de-carbonize their system but didn't have the money to put up catenary in all the served areas that now rely on DMUs. They now intend to implement the trains for all non-electrified parts of the suburban system. London has begun testing battery trains on some of it's DMU routes.

The great thing about the Liverpool system is that did not have to buy/borrow any new trains for the tests as they were all converted DMU units. They said that even 10 years ago battery trains would have been problematic not in terms of the technology {as it has been around for more than a century} but rather it's practicality but battery technology has advanced so far and so quickly with lighter batteries, longer lives, more distance, and fast recharging that now they are considered the preferred option.

They also said that one the very short extensions to 1 or 2 stations, they will require absolutely extra power or drain on the batteries due to regenerative braking recharging the batteries as they go along.
Ok, but we do have the money. GO Expansion is already slated to be one of the most expensive transit projects in the country's history, at this point might as well go all in rather than cutting the budget by 5% to not hang up electrification for no reason whatsoever. No we shouldn't get battery, or at the very least we should only reserve battery trains for very specific situations. This argument is getting tiring can we move on already?
 
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Ok, but we do have the money. GO Expansion is already slated to be one of the most expensive transit projects in the country's history, at this point might as well go all in rather than cutting the budget by 5% to not hang up electrification for no reason whatsoever. No we shouldn't get battery, or at the very least we should only reserve battery trains for very specific situations.

I wouldn't dismiss batteries altogether, just because GO Expansive is very expensive either way. The network has sections where CN / CP will resist the catenary even when the installation doesn't cost them anything. The catenary will still make their operations harder because of the double-height containers. If the Feds or the Province can resolve the issues with the track owners, great. But if not, trains with dual power can be a reasonable stop-gap solution.

I wouldn't equip each and every train with batteries, just to handle the power outages. The extra cost of batteries, extra weight, and extra maintenance probably outweight the benefit of handling the infrequent outages. Need to look at every corridor on case by case bases, hopefully the majority of service will be with straight catenary trains, but the battery option shouldn't be totally ignored.
 
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It's not like they can't model trade-offs to determine how many trainsets need batteries and how big the batteries should be.
 
Battery trains also have the advantage of being able to continue their route if there is a power outage or a problem with a specific area of the catenary wiring especially during bad weather caused by such things as ice or wind. This is a draw back of wiring..............it's not as reliable when people rely on it the most. It is true that catenary is slightly more efficient than battery but remember that the batteries can be fully charged overnight when power is vastly cheaper.

Battery trains are not an all of nothing technology. You can have 100% battery or just 10% and every where in between. I think, at a minimum, the trains should be at least 25% allowing for easy expansion, security in weather, no bridge reworking for catenary clearance, less work and labour costs, and less construction material.

Effectively even a limited battery system is like carrying an extra 10 litres of gas in your trunk. You will never need it until, of course, you do and then your damn glad you did.

Reducing your capital cost once and then paying more for trains for the rest of time seems like a *terrible* idea.

Mercer Rail which is the suburban rail network of Greater Liverpool, has just completed their trial of battery trains and they stated that they exceeded all their expectations. The transit provider wants to completely de-carbonize their system but didn't have the money to put up catenary in all the served areas that now rely on DMUs. They now intend to implement the trains for all non-electrified parts of the suburban system. London has begun testing battery trains on some of it's DMU routes.

The great thing about the Liverpool system is that did not have to buy/borrow any new trains for the tests as they were all converted DMU units. They said that even 10 years ago battery trains would have been problematic not in terms of the technology {as it has been around for more than a century} but rather it's practicality but battery technology has advanced so far and so quickly with lighter batteries, longer lives, more distance, and fast recharging that now they are considered the preferred option.

They also said that one the very short extensions to 1 or 2 stations, they will require absolutely extra power or drain on the batteries due to regenerative braking recharging the batteries as they go along.

GO is going to be a truly mass transit level solution if done right, minor lines in the UK really should not be compared.

Batteries should be pretty niche, there's no reason we shouldn't really electrify anything, the cost when done right can be astoundingly low. Using batteries because we can't figure out catenary well would be the most typical Toronto stop gap solution - don't get me started on "what about power outages" in some countries that are building metros and have very bad power grids (and in the olden days) they literally build a power station just for a rail line, we have a large and quite reliable grid - if we must have extra safety do what the Crosstown is doing and do large much more efficient grid scale batteries that trains don't need to grad around the 99.99% of the time the power is working.
 
I have my doubts on all the GO RER expansion promises. It's been 7 years since this has been promised and very little has materialized except for some small service improvements. Yes Lakeshore service frequency is better and some 2 way service exists on the Barrie and Stouffville line but that's about it. There is almost no work happening towards electrification. Procurement for this project is dragging out. I'll be surprised if there is anything truly finished by 2030. Maybe by 2040s we will have some electric trains.
 
Yes, the radio silence is worrying.

The (almost throwaway) line from Alon Levy last year:
Makes me worried that a well thought out, pan-GTHA, electrified Regional Express Rail system could be scuppered by old fashioned railroad infighting/inward thinking.

If all Toronto gets is the occasional electric locomotive on the Lakeshore West line or up to the Airport - with no changes in frequency, speed (timetables!) or cost - what's the point.

If the GTHA is going to survive the Climate Crisis we're entering - suburbanites and major cities in the GTHA need to be weened off their cars.
So, Toronto needs to build North America's first proper Regional Rail system - reasonable cost, fast, frequent, unified with other transit modes, accessible, comfortable.
In my opinion - there isn't a network in the US or Canada that meets all of these requirements right now, and Toronto could easily be the first.
 
Even if you think that electricity supply is 100% guaranteed and you never think wires will ever be damaged, a limited battery system is still the preferred option.

Battery power supply allows for easy zero emissions expansion to new areas without any new infrastructure at all. This means RER expansion to places like Hamilton or Halton Hills could be implemented immediately and not be a 10 years project.
 
I fear this is it. It's not just the railroad infighting, it's the lack of leadership at the province. We continue to build GO train stations as commuter rail with massive parking lots. RER in Europe often doesn't have large park & rides. Sure there are some but most treat an RER station as a hub with lots of services around. Here we build stations in the middle of nowhere and we rarely make a goal to density around the station and work it into an urban zone around to allow for walk-in traffic. What's the point of all-day 2-way service if everyone has to drive and park at the station. Metrolinx and the province have not yet looked at how to solve this except for building massive parking garages. What happens if the garage is full by mid-day? With no options to get to station but drive, if there is no parking, the commuter will simply keep driving. With no destinations around the stations in the suburbs, what is the point of 2-way all-day service except for the few students/seniors that could make use of it.

Right now this is the track we are on. I don't see this mind-shift that we should STOP building the way we are and truly adopt RER and what it can bring. Until we get there, GO expansion is simply slight improvements on commuter rail service.
 
I have my doubts on all the GO RER expansion promises. It's been 7 years since this has been promised and very little has materialized except for some small service improvements. Yes Lakeshore service frequency is better and some 2 way service exists on the Barrie and Stouffville line but that's about it. There is almost no work happening towards electrification. Procurement for this project is dragging out. I'll be surprised if there is anything truly finished by 2030. Maybe by 2040s we will have some electric trains.
It's somewhat concerning. While we do see grade-separations going ahead, the timeline is Torontonian-ly slow, and I hope that Metrolinx's promise of electrification bids closing this year is met.
Yes, the radio silence is worrying.

The (almost throwaway) line from Alon Levy last year:

Makes me worried that a well thought out, pan-GTHA, electrified Regional Express Rail system could be scuppered by old fashioned railroad infighting/inward thinking.
This is probably safer than many inner-city projects, because it's a 905-centric project. For once, our pandering to the suburbs is benefitial.
If all Toronto gets is the occasional electric locomotive on the Lakeshore West line or up to the Airport - with no changes in frequency, speed (timetables!) or cost - what's the point.
To me, it's mostly about service. Which, of course in the EAs, require electrification (to my knowledge). Again, I think that service increases are coming, because the 905, and because it would be easy for opposition parties to say that "The government has been spending billions for no new improved service." Also, it would benefit developers near stations.
If the GTHA is going to survive the Climate Crisis we're entering - suburbanites and major cities in the GTHA need to be weened off their cars.
So, Toronto needs to build North America's first proper Regional Rail system - reasonable cost, fast, frequent, unified with other transit modes, accessible, comfortable.
In my opinion - there isn't a network in the US or Canada that meets all of these requirements right now, and Toronto could easily be the first.
Let's hope so.
I fear this is it. It's not just the railroad infighting, it's the lack of leadership at the province. We continue to build GO train stations as commuter rail with massive parking lots. RER in Europe often doesn't have large park & rides. Sure there are some but most treat an RER station as a hub with lots of services around. Here we build stations in the middle of nowhere and we rarely make a goal to density around the station and work it into an urban zone around to allow for walk-in traffic. What's the point of all-day 2-way service if everyone has to drive and park at the station. Metrolinx and the province have not yet looked at how to solve this except for building massive parking garages. What happens if the garage is full by mid-day? With no options to get to station but drive, if there is no parking, the commuter will simply keep driving. With no destinations around the stations in the suburbs, what is the point of 2-way all-day service except for the few students/seniors that could make use of it.
The mindset needs to change, but there's little way you are changing last-mile options. If you want people to use transit, you need to make it the most convenient and fast option for the most people. I also hope for an end to parking-fest, but until GO provides better transit options/local municipalities provide better connections, including transit and active transport, parking-fest is all we have.
Right now this is the track we are on. I don't see this mind-shift that we should STOP building the way we are and truly adopt RER and what it can bring. Until we get there, GO expansion is simply slight improvements on commuter rail service.
Simply providing the service helps a lot. The Sheppard Line from Don Mills would not attract 50,000 riders daily without that subway. Neither would Spadina, and it's not hard to anticipate demand increases when the service is in place.

I do agree with that sentiment, but at the same time, we need to have a regard for how things are right now and move around it.
 
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I have my doubts on all the GO RER expansion promises. It's been 7 years since this has been promised and very little has materialized except for some small service improvements.
Definitely.

While many have taken it for granted this will happen, the fact is - we haven’t seen a contract handed out and money start flowing for the biggest chunk of the work: the electrification. It’s great that some early works are being done, but they don’t seem to be done with focus, and the timeline for RER seems to always be “a decade away”.

I do hope that GO can transition away from a commuter service, and I sincerely hope that this government - and future governments - actually fund the capital and operating costs to make this happen. It would be gamechanging. Right now though…just promises.
 
I have my doubts on all the GO RER expansion promises. It's been 7 years since this has been promised and very little has materialized except for some small service improvements. Yes Lakeshore service frequency is better and some 2 way service exists on the Barrie and Stouffville line but that's about it. There is almost no work happening towards electrification. Procurement for this project is dragging out. I'll be surprised if there is anything truly finished by 2030. Maybe by 2040s we will have some electric trains.
This is only true if you're coming at this from the perspective of someone who travels on the Lakeshore Lines. Yes little has materialized on a map, but that's mostly because we've had a ton of construction efforts centred around the Kitchener, Barrie, and Stouffville Lines. Stouffville is currently in the process of Double tracking, and completely rebuilding Unionville, Kennedy, Miliken, and Agincourt. On the Barrie line, Rutherford is being rebuilt, and the Davenport Diamond is well underway (a project that without it, Barrie Line can never have more than 2TPH including both directions), and while Kitchener had most of its upgrades completed, there is still the 401/409 Tunnel that would allow for far more frequent Kitchener Line service, and Bramalea is currently being rebuilt.

While the progress on electrification is slow, its important to remember that GO - barring the Lakeshore Line - is not even close to ready to begin hanging up electrical wires, and as such there isn't really much of a hurry to begin the process. The OnCorr bids are closing at the end of the year, and will likely be awarded early next year. Electrifying at least the core section of the network (LSW to Oakville, KI to Bramalea, BR to Aurora, ST to Unionville, and LSE to Oshawa) by 2025 or 2026 is definitely doable and is still quite likely even at the current pace.

TLDR: Remember that GO Expansion is a lot more than just electrification, and with the ongoing progress on the Non-Lakeshore Lines, Electrification isn't and shouldn't be an immediate priority.
 
Even if you think that electricity supply is 100% guaranteed and you never think wires will ever be damaged, a limited battery system is still the preferred option.

Battery power supply allows for easy zero emissions expansion to new areas without any new infrastructure at all. This means RER expansion to places like Hamilton or Halton Hills could be implemented immediately and not be a 10 years project.
EMUs have small auxiliary batteries which are fine, any meaningful range requires a bigger batter and becomes a pain.

Electrifying does not take ten years, this is a Toronto problem. Construction also hasn't started, if we decided tomorrow to electrify we could do it quickly.
 

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