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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

2025?.........outrageous!

They have been building this system since 2014 and despite all the construction of track twinning, new & upgrades stations, over/underpasses, and endless Union upgrades, they still haven't stuck a single pole in the ground little alone even figured out what kinds of trains they are going to run. Shockingly poor planning and heads should be rolling.

Let's be serious, if ML REALLY wanted to get electrification up and running they could easily do it within 18 months of the corer RER system. Putting up electric poles is child's play. The real reason that ML continually stalls electrification is that they DON'T want it up and running for several years because it would force them to take on the elephant in the room which they are desperately trying to avoid any discussion on........................fare integration. As long as they can claim that RER is still under construction, the longer they can avoid the conversation.
 
2025?.........outrageous!

They have been building this system since 2014 and despite all the construction of track twinning, new & upgrades stations, over/underpasses, and endless Union upgrades, they still haven't stuck a single pole in the ground little alone even figured out what kinds of trains they are going to run. Shockingly poor planning and heads should be rolling.

Let's be serious, if ML REALLY wanted to get electrification up and running they could easily do it within 18 months of the corer RER system. Putting up electric poles is child's play. The real reason that ML continually stalls electrification is that they DON'T want it up and running for several years because it would force them to take on the elephant in the room which they are desperately trying to avoid any discussion on........................fare integration. As long as they can claim that RER is still under construction, the longer they can avoid the conversation.
You do realize we're talking about a line that hasn't had any tracks twinned or upgraded stations with the exception of Rutherford right? Compared to the other lines, Barrie is extremely behind since all of the focus has been on Davenport (which frankly there is no reason they couldn't do multiple projects at once but hey).
 
You do realize we're talking about a line that hasn't had any tracks twinned or upgraded stations with the exception of Rutherford right? Compared to the other lines, Barrie is extremely behind since all of the focus has been on Davenport (which frankly there is no reason they couldn't do multiple projects at once but hey).

Thats not true. A section of track was doubled in 2017/2018 between two stations. I believe maple and king city. Dont quote me, someone else can provide better info. However you are still correct that a lot of work needs to be done.
 
2025?.........outrageous!

They have been building this system since 2014 and despite all the construction of track twinning, new & upgrades stations, over/underpasses, and endless Union upgrades, they still haven't stuck a single pole in the ground little alone even figured out what kinds of trains they are going to run. Shockingly poor planning and heads should be rolling.

Let's be serious, if ML REALLY wanted to get electrification up and running they could easily do it within 18 months of the corer RER system. Putting up electric poles is child's play. The real reason that ML continually stalls electrification is that they DON'T want it up and running for several years because it would force them to take on the elephant in the room which they are desperately trying to avoid any discussion on........................fare integration. As long as they can claim that RER is still under construction, the longer they can avoid the conversation.

Metrolinx is taking the approach of doing double tracking and grade separations first. Which, isn't necessarily a bad approach, but these are the things that take the most time.

The Georgetown South project was a massive undertaking, that can't be overstated. Currently whats going on on Stouffville is massive too.
 
.-.. .- - . ... - / .--. --- ... - / -... -.-- / -- . - .-. --- .-.. .. -. -..-

(Latest post by Metrolinx)


Also, the EMU image used in the post sure looks like the new Caltrains version.


Could also be the Bomb Twindexx.

Or I guess Alstom now

1622732684644.png
 
Thats not true. A section of track was doubled in 2017/2018 between two stations. I believe maple and king city. Dont quote me, someone else can provide better info. However you are still correct that a lot of work needs to be done.
I personally view that as part of running all day service on Barrie and not part of RER. Compared to the amount of double tracking there will be on Barrie, that passing loop is a ripple in the lake.
 
ML, if it makes the logical choice of using battery trains on RER, could have the entire system electrified by the end of the THIS year. Hell it could have been done years ago if they put near as much effort into it as the did building mega parking garages that only a Texan could love.

As I stated before, this is not incompetence but rather done by design. Even one electrified frequent route being introduced will require the implementation of fare integration which ML has been avoiding like the plague. Spending money is the easy part but actually figuring out how to run it with the potential political battle is quite another.

ML wants to delay any discussion about fare integration until the system is electrified with all day 15 minutes each way service on every single route. If they were to bring in this service they would have to explain why it's not being used for the $12 billion they are spending on it and would have to explain why, after years of construction and billions spent that in the end all they have produced is a two-tiered transit system.........................better service for those who can afford it and squat for those who can't.

Why the local media has not pounced on this is anyone's guess.
 
ML, if it makes the logical choice of using battery trains on RER, could have the entire system electrified by the end of the THIS year. Hell it could have been done years ago if they put near as much effort into it as the did building mega parking garages that only a Texan could love.
Uh no? Regardless of the types of trains, they will only get new trains when A) The OnCorr bidder is selected, B) The trains are selected and ordered, C) Those trains are built and manufactured, and D) Those trains are delivered. Don't forget that we still need to build infrastructure for those trains like recharging stations, and creating a service plan for how we recharge the trains, how do we move the trains around, where do we store them, etc. By the time all of that happens, we're probably going to be hanging up wires.

Next, There is no need for "electric trains by the end of the year". LSW and LSE already had 15-20 minute headways precovid, Kitchener has the UP Express in its multi track sections (and even then the 4th platform at Weston isn't built yet, and the 401/409 tunnel project isn't finished so you can't run frequent GO trains on that line either), Barrie has basically no double tracking, and while Stouffville has some double tracked sections, all of the stations are still single track single platform. In other words, what exactly are you going to do with new battery trains?
As I stated before, this is not incompetence but rather done by design. Even one electrified frequent route being introduced will require the implementation of fare integration which ML has been avoiding like the plague. Spending money is the easy part but actually figuring out how to run it with the potential political battle is quite another.
While Fare Integration is required for GO RER to be successful, it is not required for them to start running electrified service, nor is this a limitation they placed on themselves.
ML wants to delay any discussion about fare integration until the system is electrified with all day 15 minutes each way service on every single route. If they were to bring in this service they would have to explain why it's not being used for the $12 billion they are spending on it and would have to explain why, after years of construction and billions spent that in the end all they have produced is a two-tiered transit system.........................better service for those who can afford it and squat for those who can't.
Citation Needed

Yes its a lot easier to throw around money then coordinate with a dozen transit agencies and municipalities about how to integrate fares, which is why Fare Integration is taking so long. That being said you're trying to paint a narrative that absolutely nothing is being done which can't be further from the truth. Today MiWay just announced a fare integration plan with the TTC where Miway will be able to use TTC corridors unrestricted and collect the fares that are needed. As an example, If you take a Miway bus from East Mall to Kipling, that will cost you a TTC fare, so even using Mississauga busses, as long as you're still in Toronto, you only have to pay the Toronto fare. Very similar initiatives are currently being discussed between YRT and TTC. As it turns out these discussions occur behind closed doors, so just because nothing is visibly happening, doesn't mean nothing is happening.
Why the local media has not pounced on this is anyone's guess.
A) The media is too busy pandering to NIMBYs, trying to find the smallest issue with the current subway plans so that they can use it to rip into Doug Ford, and pretending that LRT is the 2nd coming of christ.

B) There is a lot that can be said about the way Metrolinx is handling GO Expansion, and unfortunately a lot of it is negative. However none of what you wrote here is really valid criticism, with the exception that Metrolinx should be doing a lot more work in parallel rather than having everything being done in distinct phases. With the exception of the gap in the Kitchener Line corridor, there is no reason for us to rush out and buy Battery trains while most of the infrastructure isn't built, all to provide electrified service during a 4 year gap. Electrification is the least important part of GO RER. The work that is happening right now with grade separations and station expansions is significantly more important and vital to the future of the GO Network than electrified trains, electrification is just the cream of the crop in making GO RER into something great, but we have absolutely no reason to rush it this hard.
 
2025?.........outrageous!

They have been building this system since 2014 and despite all the construction of track twinning, new & upgrades stations, over/underpasses, and endless Union upgrades, they still haven't stuck a single pole in the ground little alone even figured out what kinds of trains they are going to run. Shockingly poor planning and heads should be rolling.

Let's be serious, if ML REALLY wanted to get electrification up and running they could easily do it within 18 months of the corer RER system. Putting up electric poles is child's play. The real reason that ML continually stalls electrification is that they DON'T want it up and running for several years because it would force them to take on the elephant in the room which they are desperately trying to avoid any discussion on........................fare integration. As long as they can claim that RER is still under construction, the longer they can avoid the conversation.

ML, if it makes the logical choice of using battery trains on RER, could have the entire system electrified by the end of the THIS year. Hell it could have been done years ago if they put near as much effort into it as the did building mega parking garages that only a Texan could love.

As I stated before, this is not incompetence but rather done by design. Even one electrified frequent route being introduced will require the implementation of fare integration which ML has been avoiding like the plague. Spending money is the easy part but actually figuring out how to run it with the potential political battle is quite another.

ML wants to delay any discussion about fare integration until the system is electrified with all day 15 minutes each way service on every single route. If they were to bring in this service they would have to explain why it's not being used for the $12 billion they are spending on it and would have to explain why, after years of construction and billions spent that in the end all they have produced is a two-tiered transit system.........................better service for those who can afford it and squat for those who can't.

Why the local media has not pounced on this is anyone's guess.

Batteries are the new hydrogen I see.
 
^^ Let's not get into this again. Battery trains are 100% catenary trains and have been around for over a 100 years. The only thing that that has changed is that now due to huge advancements in battery technology they are practical. A battery train is nothing but a catenary train with bigger batteries hence requiring less wires and poles.

Saying battery trains are new is akin to saying the same about battery cars. The basic technology of battery cars is exactly the same as they were more than a century ago [remember the first cars were battery not ICE} but due to very basic battery technology, they too, like battery trains, were simply not practical. Now they are and ditto for passenger trains.

How you can equate battery trains to new technology ones like hydrogen is simply beyond me. As I have stated for many YEARS I never thought hydrogen trains were the best option but rather battery ones.
 
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It's pretty obvious that this is not a very big issue. Battery trains & hydrogen trains have their limitations, for obvious reasons. We are getting electrified rail, which is a good thing. It won't take very long considering the massive amount of grade separations, electrical infrastructure, double-tracking, new rolling stock, and the list goes on and on. I agree that there is much to criticize, but the electrical vs battery vs hydrogen issue seems irrelevant imo. Let's just be happy that we're getting a technology that existed in other countries for almost a century, and that we're finally moving away from diesel trains!
 
Remember kids that "battery" run trains is a relative term. Catenary and hydrogen also run on battery power.

It really is more of a discussion of how much of the trains you want to run on battery. I wouldn't agree with 100% battery trains only re-charging at their terminal stations. Batteries are not advanced enough for the long commuter and RER routes and require too much "downtime" for recharging and the weight would be prohibitive.

An ideal system is simply having recharging at every stop which can now be done contactless much like electric buses are. Essentially they are catenary trains but with bigger and better batteries which reduces the time and expense of putting catenary over the entire system, requires far less maintenance, and is not at the whim of Mother Nature..
 
Remember kids that "battery" run trains is a relative term. Catenary and hydrogen also run on battery power.

It really is more of a discussion of how much of the trains you want to run on battery. I wouldn't agree with 100% battery trains only re-charging at their terminal stations. Batteries are not advanced enough for the long commuter and RER routes and require too much "downtime" for recharging and the weight would be prohibitive.

An ideal system is simply having recharging at every stop which can now be done contactless much like electric buses are. Essentially they are catenary trains but with bigger and better batteries which reduces the time and expense of putting catenary over the entire system, requires far less maintenance, and is not at the whim of Mother Nature..
Batteries are still expensive and heavy, and should only be used where absolutely needed, ie the Kitchener Line. If you can fully electrify a line (like we are doing with Barrie and Stouffville), Batteries then become a massive cost that don't contribute to much. Ideally what we would have is standard catenary EMUs running on the core sections of the line, and the outer sections of the line that either aren't electrified or have gaps in the electrification, maybe have battery-electric locomotives, however that's as far that batteries of any kind are worth investing in.
 

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