GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[reaperexpress]

eh. The travel time for Kitchener-Guelph is still scheduled for 21 minutes, a drop to 15 minutes would be quite substantial.

Just think, the London GO train would now take only 3:47!

That's not an apples-to-apples comparison. 21 minutes is a scheduled travel time, which included padding, while 15 minutes is the best-case travel time if the slow orders are resolved. My guess is that the scheduled travel time will be 19 or 18 minutes in the next timetable.

Given the unreliability of the London service I wouldn't be surprised if they keep the eastbound end-to-end travel times the same and move those 3 minutes into a longer dwell in Kitchener. That way delays originating west of Kitchener would be less likely to spread onto the portion of the line which people actually use. Westbound they could cut the 3 minutes out of the running time, and just let the train get to London whenever it gets there.

The rail distance between London and Toronto is approx. 190 km. (If anyone knows the precise distance, feel free to elucidate). Taking roughly 4 hours time for the commute means an average speed of 47.5 km/h. Usain Bolt's fastest recorded speed was 44.99 km/hr.

The distance is 197 km and the scheduled travel time is 3h53, so the average speed is 50.7 km/h. This divides into a 42.7 km/h average west of Kitchener, and a 61.2 km/h average east of Kitchener.
For comparison, VIA's London-Brantford-Toronto intercity service covers 185 km in 2h10, at an average speed of 85.8 km/h.

This extension is not impressing anybody here in Fake-London. I doubt that any of the half dozen folks who have actually wasted an entire day riding it will change their votes to Ford as a result.

No those people will definitely not be happy campers after experiencing the train. I think that the Ford government is hoping that Londoners will hear about the train, think that it sounds like a good idea and never actually try to ride it themselves.

 

[nfitz]

That's not an apples-to-apples comparison. 21 minutes is a scheduled travel time, which included padding, while 15 minutes is the best-case travel time if the slow orders are resolved. My guess is that the scheduled travel time will be 19 or 18 minutes in the next timetable.

Might be very optimistic for 15. What's the best historic time? Looking in both 1967 and 1988 VIA timetables, the best time was 22 minutes. I'd guess 20 minutes one day.

But that assumes no additional stations. If they add Breslau, then back to 22 minutes minimum for GO.

 

[reaperexpress]

Might be very optimistic for 15. What's the best historic time? Looking in both 1967 and 1988 VIA timetables, the best time was 22 minutes. I'd guess 20 minutes one day.

But that assumes no additional stations. If they add Breslau, then back to 22 minutes minimum for GO.

When I said best-case I meant literally full throttle up to the speed limit, and no delays. So it would never have appeared in a schedule. Also note that that 15 minute estimate and the associated 17 minute observation are departure-to-arrival, whereas most timetables show departure-to-departure, including the dwell time at one of the stations. We may now see shorter travel times than the historical timetables have had, because I don't think the trains have ever been as fast through Guelph as they are today (literally today).

 

[nfitz]

Also note that 15 minutes is departure-to-arrival, whereas most timetables show departure-to-departure, including the dwell time at one of the stations.

The GO trains that terminate in Kitchener would show departure to arrival between the two cities.

 

[reaperexpress]

The GO trains that terminate in Kitchener would show departure to arrival between the two cities.

Yes but they also show a whole bunch of schedule padding which GO dumps at the end of all runs to artificially inflate their on-time arrival scores. Hence why westbound trains are scheduled for 24 minutes, not including any dwells, while eastbound trains are scheduled for 21 minutes including the dwell in Guelph.

 

[Krypto98]

As of today, the former 10 mph (16 km/h) slow order through downtown Guelph has been increased to 45 mph (72 km/h), which will now be the permanent speed limit.
View attachment 367404

VIA 84 covered Kitchener-Guelph in 17 minutes today (dep. 12:19, arr 12:36), despite a 15 mph slow order at Lancaster st in Kitchener, and a 15 mph (24 km/h) slowdown (slow order??) at Paisley Rd in Guelph (see below). I suspect that the travel time could be under 15 minutes if those speed restrictions were resolved.
View attachment 367403

Fun facts:
The speed limit through downtown Guelph (45 mph) is now 50% higher than the speed limit along the dead-straight track between St Marys and Stratford (30 mph)
The average speed between Kitchener and Guelph (78 km/h) is now 62% higher than the maximum speed between St Marys and Stratford (48 km/h)
The new speed limit is 350% higher than the speed limit prior to the upgrade project (10 mph).

Today the 8:39-10:28 Kitchener- Toronto train left kitchener about 8 minutes late. After Guelph it was delayed only 2 minutes.

 

[nfitz]

Today the 8:39-10:28 Kitchener- Toronto train left kitchener about 8 minutes late. After Guelph it was delayed only 2 minutes.

That's a good way to measure it, with a late train. So the 21 minutes scheduled time could become 15 minutes. Maybe 16 for padding. Can't drive that fast (until they build the new expressway).

Gosh, if they removed the other slow orders, and switched to EMUs with better acceleration, maybe they could get it down to 12!

 

[Krypto98]

That's a good way to measure it, with a late train. So the 21 minutes scheduled time could become 15 minutes. Maybe 16 for padding. Can't drive that fast (until they build the new expressway).

Gosh, if they removed the other slow orders, and switched to EMUs with better acceleration, maybe they could get it down to 12!

Too bad about the Lancaster slow order, they have electronic signs saying not to cross. Anti trespass barriers, crossing gates for pedestrians, yet people still trespass there

 

[reaperexpress]

VIA 84 covered Kitchener - Guelph in 15 minutes today (avg speed: 88 km/h):
Depart Kitchener 12:07 (3 min late)

Arrive Guelph 12:22 (2 min early)

Times are 6h off because my computer is set to Central European time

This was really a best-case scenario: the train departed Kitchener late and there were no delays en route other than the 15 mph slow order at Lancaster. I still think the January 2021 GO timetables will have an 18-19 minute travel time from Kitchener to Guelph, including padding and the dwell in Guelph.

 

[TFC]

As of today, the former 10 mph (16 km/h) slow order through downtown Guelph has been increased to 45 mph (72 km/h), which will now be the permanent speed limit.
View attachment 367404

VIA 84 covered Kitchener-Guelph in 17 minutes today (dep. 12:19, arr 12:36), despite a 15 mph slow order at Lancaster st in Kitchener, and a 15 mph (24 km/h) slowdown at Paisley Rd in Guelph (see below). I suspect that the travel time could be under 15 minutes if those speed restrictions were resolved.
View attachment 367403

Fun facts:
The speed limit through downtown Guelph (45 mph) is now 50% higher than the speed limit along the dead-straight track between St Marys and Stratford (30 mph)
The average speed between Kitchener and Guelph (78 km/h) is now 62% higher than the maximum speed between St Marys and Stratford (48 km/h)
The new speed limit is 350% higher than the speed limit prior to the upgrade project (10 mph).

Is the slowdown at Paisley Road a new issue?

 

[Krypto98]

Is the slowdown at Paisley Road a new issue?

Its grade separated so I'm not sure what the issue is

 

[reaperexpress]

Is the slowdown at Paisley Road a new issue?

Via 87 passed through there at 107 km/h so I think it was just a red light or something.

 

[drum118]

Dec 7
Lot more up on site for all 3 projects

Kennedy GO
Looks like part of the machinal building for the LRT will be an enclose area for the north platform. Everything for the LRT is now cover over that allow the 2nd track to be built over it. Platform edge being install at the south end.

Noticed the steel for the north platform is not galvanizes like other platforms.

Agincourt
2nd track installed along with the new southbound platform with a nice jog. No idea about the 2nd track south of Sheppard nor when the 2nd track will continue south over Sheppard Ave.

Part of the new station open and assume the other section is only for AM service. Elevator install and no idea if it working nor is there one for the northbound platform.

Millikin
Steel erectors where having issues installing the columns. The westbound Steeles lanes not even close to be worked on with about 2nd Q opening. Same goes for the north side stairs, elevator and the walkways bridge.

 

[Krypto98]

Via 87 passed through there at 107 km/h so I think it was just a red light or something.

Or workers in the morning hours. Shantz station road had workers the other day

 

[ssiguy2]

The really sad thing about this whole London GO fiasco, is that it gives QP the excuse not to provide a real GO service to the City because Londoners won't use it.

This is 100% the result of creating a GO system on the assumption that London itself has no commuters and people in London only want to get to Toronto. NOBODY in London commutes to Toronto. They may go one or twice a week but VIA would get them there is nearly half the time. This is what happens when you put a Torontonian in charge of transit for London.

London's situation for a local commuter GO service is ideal. It has rail lines radiating out of the city in every direction. To the north St.Mary's with 8k and Stratford with 34k. To the west Strathroy with 16k and Komoka/Kilworth with 3. To the east, Dorchester with 5k, Ingersol with 14k, and Woodstock with 46. To the south there is nearby St.Thomas with 43k. All this without London having any form of urban expressway that comes even remotely close to the downtown and London in general having inadequate roads and horrific. traffic. As an example, if you go to Google maps you will see that from Ingersol to downtown is 36 minutes driving and from Strathroy 38 minutes but with even slow VIA it's only 21 minutes. This doesn't make commuter rail time competitive but rather a HUGE time advantage.

The VIA station is right downtown an a short block from the BRT Downtown Loop easily connecting the big 3 employers in London........ huge Western, Fanshawe {the 6th largest college in the country} and SWO's largest hospital, the London Health Sciences Centre.

GO commuter would be very successful in London which is one of the fastest growing Metros in the country.............shame they didn't bother to ask Londoners what THEY wanted.