GO Train Fares To Increase

[salmonz]

It's official - fares go up 5% on March 20th.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/768451--go-transit-fares-rising-along-with-service

Petition Queen's Park here: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/reject_go_fare_hike_2010/

 

[SlickFranky]

I'm sure most users are fine with this very small increase, but their voice is rarely communicated with much dramatic force. Has anyone ever submitted an anti-petition?

We, the undersigned, don't mind the fare increase. We honestly won't even notice the 25 cents. If it will help you expand service, we're cool with that. By the way, thanks for providing a really useful service.
1. SlickFranky

 

[kettal]

I borrowed my sister's car this week and drove a route which I would ordinarily use GO bus for. I honestly say the relaxation I can get on a bus instead of driving is worth every penny.

But if we really want to solve traffic problems, we need better service and reasonable fares. When is Metrolinx finally going to get some real fiscal power?

 

[nfitz]

I'm sure most users are fine with this very small increase, but their voice is rarely communicated with much dramatic force. Has anyone ever submitted an anti-petition?

A 6% increase (for me at least) this year, after a 6% increase last year? You can't raise fares 6% every year ... where will it end?

 

[rbt]

A 6% increase (for me at least) this year, after a 6% increase last year? You can't raise fares 6% every year ... where will it end?

When riders begin demanding reduced service because it is gold plated and far too much. I don't believe GO has reached that point yet.

 

[drum118]

Yes there has been anti-petition over the years, but falls on deaf ears.

At some point in time, it will become cheaper to drive than use transit if these 5-8% fare increase keep on going up.

Considering who operate the trains these days, or any transit system, the workers get a 3% yearly wage increase that eats ups close to 80% of operating cost. Therefore the rest of the % in fare increase covers the rest of the operating cost as well capital cost.

The question was asked how did GO fare stack up with other transit systems like GO and it was stated GO was on the low end for fares. Some of the system been used for comparison only run heavy rail service with better headway, some are new well other have low ridership in the first place.

I was also asked what would happen if there was no fare increase and the answers was where do we get the $15m to do this. No fare increase would mean cuts in service with no train service on the weekend.

One place GO can get funding is charging $5/day to park at the GO stations. 60,000 x $5 x 5 is $1.5m a week or about $50m a year. OH!!! I can hear the angry for saying this, but it has to happen as we are only moving Green House Gas for one place to another without dealing with it. Also, poor use of land. Bring it on.

 

[salmonz]

Remember, GO riders are paying $200+ per month, with some riders paying $250 to $300 per month. In addition, there's the TTC cost, add another $122/mth. So your looking at $400/mth. That is $4800/yr, never mind the capital cost paid for by your tax dollars for trains, buildings, parking, etc.

The capital and operating cost ride is $17.76 as of 2007. ( $905,585,000 capital and operating expenses divided by 50,986,200 rides)
There's approximately 98,050 actual people taking GO 5 days a week (50,986,200 rides per year, divide by 52 weeks, 5 days, and 2 riders per day --- just to be simple)

It's costing GO (capital and operating costs) roughly $9235/year/person, or $769.66/month/person, or $17.76/rider. And those taking GO probably own a car too, so add that on the true cost of taking GO Transit.

Any transit system should be a no brainer to take financially. To 50% of the riders, they can clearly afford it as there's about 50% of riders with household incomes of over $100,000/yr. What about those people who have a household income of $50/$60K a year? Are they not allowed to take GO and TTC because they need their car and adding on the extra $400/mth they simply can't afford?

Point here, is there's probably people that will ditch transit in favour of the car they already have and need, rather than the convenience (or inconvenience) of transit.

 

[salmonz]

One place GO can get funding is charging $5/day to park at the GO stations. 60,000 x $5 x 5 is $1.5m a week or about $50m a year. OH!!! I can hear the angry for saying this, but it has to happen as we are only moving Green House Gas for one place to another without dealing with it. Also, poor use of land. Bring it on.

But remember GO stated the cost of parking is already factored into the fare? It would be Canadian to say you now have to pay again for something you already pay for.

At yesterday's Metrolinx Board meeting, there was no indication of "ANY" cuts or operational efficiencies that could be made, only "continue with the status quo". This is our government for you. No responsibility and no restrain.

The Town of Milton for example presented in their 2010 Budget things to cut back on to drop a 4% tax hike down to 2% (the inflation rate). This would not affect the level of service taxpayers receive to the point that GO Transit exxagerated their level of service impact.

GO Transit yesterday stated to get $17M, they would have to cut $80M of service. That was the end of the conversation. At no point there was a discussion about, ok, rather than finding $17M, can we find $5M? No, didn't happen.

 

[Platform 27]

Any transit system should be a no brainer to take financially.

Yes, and I should be able to afford a house right out of university. And anyone should be able to eat healthily for $100/month. And going to the dentist should be free.

Any transit system is going to cost exactly as much as it needs to keep operating. Unless you freeze operating costs or increase non-farebox revenue flows, fares must go up.

 

[salmonz]

Any transit system is going to cost exactly as much as it needs to keep operating. Unless you freeze operating costs or increase non-farebox revenue flows, fares must go up.

I respectfully disagree, because you assume the transit system is operating as efficiently as possible. I bet you they're not. In comparison to other transit systems, you'll be assuming they're operating as efficiently as possible too.

Here's a simple example. I'm hungry and need to eat. So I decide if I don't want to be hungry I'm going to a restaurant to eat and spend $20 for a sandwich.
Testing your argument against logic, it cost exactly as much as it took to feed myself. $20. So I freeze how much I spend for a sandwich at $20. I'm still spending $20 for a sandwich.
Rather than my argument of efficiency. Why I can't I buy a $2 sandwich such as buy bread, lunch meat, miracle whip, etc...

This is exactly what GO Transit is doing (spending $20 for a sandwich, when you can make your own for $2), and the Metrolinx Board is not asking (well, can't you make your own sandwich rather than spend $20 on a sandwich).

 

[nfitz]

When riders begin demanding reduced service because it is gold plated and far too much. I don't believe GO has reached that point yet.

And part of that is that the majority of the users travel longer distances, and have been seeing only inflationary increases every year, rather than the few of us who travel shorter distances, and are having to subsidize those taking longer trips.

 

[Platform 27]

I respectfully disagree, because you assume the transit system is operating as efficiently as possible. I bet you they're not. In comparison to other transit systems, you'll be assuming they're operating as efficiently as possible too.

Here's a simple example. I'm hungry and need to eat. So I decide if I don't want to be hungry I'm going to a restaurant to eat and spend $20 for a sandwich.
Testing your argument against logic, it cost exactly as much as it took to feed myself. $20. So I freeze how much I spend for a sandwich at $20. I'm still spending $20 for a sandwich.
Rather than my argument of efficiency. Why I can't I buy a $2 sandwich such as buy bread, lunch meat, miracle whip, etc...

This is exactly what GO Transit is doing (spending $20 for a sandwich, when you can make your own for $2), and the Metrolinx Board is not asking (well, can't you make your own sandwich rather than spend $20 on a sandwich).

Freezing operating costs doesn't have to mean reducing service... it could well mean finding greater efficiencies. I just have yet to hear where there are obvious examples of waste in GO. How are they spending $20 on a sandwich while overlooking easy ways to get one for $2?

 

[salmonz]

Freezing operating costs doesn't have to mean reducing service... it could well mean finding greater efficiencies. I just have yet to hear where there are obvious examples of waste in GO. How are they spending $20 on a sandwich while overlooking easy ways to get one for $2?

Very good question. I would love to know what is costing GO Transit the most money on an itemized list, i.e. Union Station operating cost, Rail costs for each line, cost to run each train, energy agreements, head office costs, project lists (costs, timeline, net benefit), route revenue and costs (per bus, train, schedule, etc.), etc. GO Transit should publish all of this to the public.

Open everything to re-bidding, with the goal to find a lower cost for all expenses.

 

[rbt]

And part of that is that the majority of the users travel longer distances, and have been seeing only inflationary increases every year, rather than the few of us who travel shorter distances, and are having to subsidize those taking longer trips.

I certainly cannot disagree with that.

If I was magically put in charge and didn't have to answer to the voting public, GO Transit would be required to run with a small operational profit margin (which goes toward basic capital maintenace) and highways would be 100% user fee funded including the currently externalized health care, police, fire, ambulance, ... costs. The fares charged would be setup to encourage significant turnover of passengers on the vehicle. Encourage GO use to be more for local travel and less for long distance commutes.

That actually means huge fare increases for trips ending at Union in the morning or starting at Union in the evening and a reduction for pretty much every other combination.

A trip from Aldershot to Oakville might only be $1 and Exhibition to Union during morning rush might be $6.

 

[doady]

Considering that GO has the highest cost recovery of any system in North America by far, it is hard to argue about efficiency. The obsession with efficiency is the real reason that the fare increase is so high. Does a North American public transit system really need 90% cost recovery? In fact, they should reduce the fares of those who travel short distance and those who don't park at the stations and reduce the cost recovery.