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Globe: Second NHL Team for Toronto?

What does Bettman have against Canada. He's the one who intiated the move of the Jets and the Nordiques, to move to southern markets. I swear to god, hockey in the middle of the desert makes as much sense as growing lemons in the Yukon.
 
JKS: Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa say hi.

Bettman doesn't want another team for one of two reasons. Either he wants any potential team to be an expansion team (bidding could put that team in the $400million+ range) so that way the league's owners get to split the cash from a new team in the GTA, or he's protecting MLSE, which is a group he is supposed to represent as commissioner.

My guess is that it's actually a bit of both.
 
So what's your angle, then? You've been pretty hostile to Basillie's bid. Are you a Teacher hoping to maximize your pension? Why be such a MLSE apologist?

I have no "angle"....I am not a teacher.......I am not hostile to JB's bid.....as I have stated repeatedly, I am just someone who is amazed at the difference in the way the media (and I guess public opinion) treats JB relative to MLSE.
 
IMO, the whole "home territory" concept is a crock. What benefit to the league or the game does it have? Look at the English Premier League - they have 5 teams in London, 3 in Birmingham, and 6 in and around Manchester and Liverpool. Every club is forced to be competitive. If it's not, it drops to a lower tier. Simple.

But they all started as local clubs and grew, with the game itself, into a professional/business venture. They did not pay a multi-million dollar (pound) fee (called a franchise fee) to join a league. Both sports systems have validity but you/we can't just pick and choose the best of each and say that's the way it should be.

If I pay, say, $100 million to join a league.....I have a right to operate in that league (not some lower league because I had a run of bad luck/management/players) and if I paid that money to operate in a certain market, I have a reasonable (possibly contractual/legal) right to expect limited/no competition to my operating in that market.

Man United never paid a fee to join the EPL (or the English First Division as it was at the time) nor did they pay any fee to any body for the franchise rights to operate in Manchester.....so they have no expectation of being guaranteed EPL status nor do they have any right to expect the operation of Manchester City to be curtailed (as much as they may like it to be so ;) )
 
What does Bettman have against Canada. He's the one who intiated the move of the Jets and the Nordiques, to move to southern markets. I swear to god, hockey in the middle of the desert makes as much sense as growing lemons in the Yukon.


Bettman was hired to grow the game in the USA. By moving teams back to Canada he has essentially failed and would have to resign. His ego is too big for that. There won't be another team in Toronto, especially one funded by a group that clearly has no idea how to run a business by donating a ridiculous amount of it's profits to charity. This is a complete joke.
 
Phoenix Coyotes' mess heads to court

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/647063

Former NHLer Dave Scatchard is owed $1 million, the only player caught up in the Phoenix Coyotes' bankruptcy mess.

It's a mess that could blow up in the NHL's face in court tomorrow, according to one legal expert who believes Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie has a strong enough case to win because his offer of $212.5 million (all figures U.S.) for the team ought to carry a lot of weight with Judge Redfield Baum.

"(If) Judge Baum is focused on helping creditors, (it) means Balsillie should win," says Penn State law professor Stephen Ross. "But many judges are reluctant to challenge the tradition of sports, which helps the NHL."

Scatchard is listed as an unsecured creditor, meaning he'd be among the last in line to collect money from the sale of the team. He's in the same category as Coyotes coach and minority owner Wayne Gretzky, who is owed $9.3 million in deferred compensation.

The money due Scatchard is listed as a debt by the team because he was bought out by the Coyotes for $2.1 million in 2007.

Gretzky came under fire from the city of Glendale, which is opposing the relocation of the team in court this week, in court filings over the weekend. According to city documents, Gretzky's salary is one of the reasons the team is losing money.

A consultant who went over the Coyotes' books for the city attributed $15 million to mismanagement by Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes, with Gretzky's compensation the biggest part.

The consultant said Gretzky ought to have his salary slashed from $8 million to $2 million as part of a reorganization that would help turn the team into a financial success, thereby negating the need to relocate.

The NHL went on the offensive in court filings as well, saying four suitors – including Toronto Argonauts owners David Cynamon and Howard Sokolowski – were interested in buying the team. Three of them – White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, minority owner John Breslow and an unnamed Phoenix businessman – said they'd keep the team in Phoenix.

But the NHL went farther, painting a picture of chaos if the Coyotes left town, disrupting schedules, broadcast rights and forcing realignment with a ripple effect on rivalries.

"The fundamental essence of the NHL venture is who the members are and where the teams play," commissioner Gary Bettman said in his declaration to the court. "Both aspects have an integral and direct correlation to the overall business success of the league."

Ross, who specializes in sports antitrust suits at Penn State University, believes the NHL will have trouble with that argument.

"The NHL overstates the need for cooperation among clubs," Ross said in an email exchange." This league is run like the United Nations, not McDonald's. Clubs vote their own interest, not the interests of the whole league."

The NHL believes its method for approving ownership and relocation – through a vote of the board of governors – will withstand a court challenge.

Not so fast, said Ross.

"They have a conflict of interest," Ross said. "Courts need to closely scrutinize sports league decisions where there is a serious risk that the NHL decision is not being made in the best interest of the league but just to protect individual owners."

Balsillie argues league efforts to stop the move to Hamilton are anticompetitive, protecting the Maple Leafs and Buffalo Sabres from healthy competition. Precedent set in the NFL case of Raiders owner Al Davis's successful move from Oakland to Los Angeles helps Balsillie.

"The Raiders' trial lawyer persuaded a jury that the NFL's justifications for refusing to allow the move were bogus and that the only logical explanations were personal malice directed at the Raiders' owner and a desire to protect the L.A. Rams from local competition," Ross said. "Balsillie is basically making the same argument here."

Another leader in the antitrust field, Michael Kelly, said he wouldn't be surprised if Balsillie won given the Raiders' legal precedent. But the former lawyer for Major League Baseball said antitrust laws "have evolved," giving hope for the NHL.

"It would take guts for a bankruptcy court judge to foist a new owner or new territory upon a league," Kelly said.

Whatever the judge decides following tomorrow's airing of legal arguments, this case is far from over.

"The decision is sure to be appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and who knows what the three-judge panel of that court will think about?" Ross said.



Comments on this story are moderated |Login to Comment Commenting Guidelines
 
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/647063


"It would take guts for a bankruptcy court judge to foist a new owner or new territory upon a league," Kelly said.[/B]
Whatever the judge decides following tomorrow's airing of legal arguments, this case is far from over.


This is, probably, the freshest piece of logic on this story I have seen for a while. It really is the dilema facing the judge. Even if he agrees that, as JB is attesting, the NHL does not control the team the current owner does and; the team is bankrupt and; JB's offer is the highest value for the team......it is not clear to me that he has the ability or right to tell the NHL where it can do business? Since the JB offer appears to be conditional on being able to move the team to Hamilton....is that not out of the jurisdiction of this judge? if it is outside his jurisdiction, then there really is no JB offer to decide on and (as I understand bankruptcy law) the trustee has to accept the highest unconditional offer being made....and that does not appear to be JB's offer.
 
Since the JB offer appears to be conditional on being able to move the team to Hamilton....is that not out of the jurisdiction of this judge?

Been there, done that ... in 1970
Balsillie hearing not unprecedented

June 08, 2009
Steve Milton
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/579325

Is Bud Selig arguing against his own past?

One of the most riveting tidbits among the dozens of lengthy "briefs" sent over the weekend to Judge Redfield T. Baum, in advance of tomorrow's pivotal hearing on whether the Phoenix Coyotes can be sold to play anywhere but Phoenix, is a 1970 baseball bankruptcy.

A filing by the Coyotes cites the 1970 case of the Seattle Pilots, which went into bankruptcy, were sold and moved to Milwaukee to become the Brewers, over the objections of the American League (the Brewers have since switched to the National League).

"The facts of the Pacific Northwest bankruptcy are virtually indistinguishable here," the Coyotes say, noting concerted efforts by the league and Seattle to keep the team there, and that the other American League teams felt it was better for them to keep the team in Washington state.

But, the brief notes, the judge ruled the team could be moved and it was all done in less than a month: bankruptcy was filed March 12 and on April 7, the team began play as Milwaukee Brewers, half a continent away.

The brief notes the Coyotes and Jim Balsillie are asking that the same procedure take place in four months, not one.

The commissioners' offices of Major League Baseball, the NFL and NBA have all filed statements to Baum supporting the NHL in the Coyotes case. The NBA and MLB statements urged Baum "not to set precedent that could severely disrupt the business of professional hockey" and other professional sports.

The commissioner of MLB is Bud Selig.

The man who led the group that purchased the Pilots out of bankruptcy and moved them to Milwaukee in 1970? Bud Selig.
 
Been there, done that ... in 1970
Balsillie hearing not unprecedented

June 08, 2009
Steve Milton
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/579325

Is Bud Selig arguing against his own past?

One of the most riveting tidbits among the dozens of lengthy "briefs" sent over the weekend to Judge Redfield T. Baum, in advance of tomorrow's pivotal hearing on whether the Phoenix Coyotes can be sold to play anywhere but Phoenix, is a 1970 baseball bankruptcy.

A filing by the Coyotes cites the 1970 case of the Seattle Pilots, which went into bankruptcy, were sold and moved to Milwaukee to become the Brewers, over the objections of the American League (the Brewers have since switched to the National League).

"The facts of the Pacific Northwest bankruptcy are virtually indistinguishable here," the Coyotes say, noting concerted efforts by the league and Seattle to keep the team there, and that the other American League teams felt it was better for them to keep the team in Washington state.

But, the brief notes, the judge ruled the team could be moved and it was all done in less than a month: bankruptcy was filed March 12 and on April 7, the team began play as Milwaukee Brewers, half a continent away.

The brief notes the Coyotes and Jim Balsillie are asking that the same procedure take place in four months, not one.

The commissioners' offices of Major League Baseball, the NFL and NBA have all filed statements to Baum supporting the NHL in the Coyotes case. The NBA and MLB statements urged Baum "not to set precedent that could severely disrupt the business of professional hockey" and other professional sports.

The commissioner of MLB is Bud Selig.

The man who led the group that purchased the Pilots out of bankruptcy and moved them to Milwaukee in 1970? Bud Selig.

Interesting.....it just seems wrong to me that a judge can tell a business (league) where it should set up shop. What if the prosepctive owner of the team was gonna buy them and move them to, say, Bala......would that make sense? No but, according to this precedent, it could happen. Surely a league has the right to determine what markets it wants to operate in? No?
 
Interesting.....it just seems wrong to me that a judge can tell a business (league) where it should set up shop. What if the prosepctive owner of the team was gonna buy them and move them to, say, Bala......would that make sense? No but, according to this precedent, it could happen. Surely a league has the right to determine what markets it wants to operate in? No?

Except that even the deepest of pockets would have trouble subsidizing the Yukon Coyotes...
 
Interesting.....it just seems wrong to me that a judge can tell a business (league) where it should set up shop. What if the prosepctive owner of the team was gonna buy them and move them to, say, Bala......would that make sense? No but, according to this precedent, it could happen. Surely a league has the right to determine what markets it wants to operate in? No?

Probably because that's not at all what is happening. Bankruptcy courts are responsible for ensuring claimants maximize their return by any means necessary. If that includes selling the time to someone who wants to move it, then so be it. The focus is to pay off the claimants creditors, not get involved in the NHL. The court could well decide that JB isn't actually the best deal for Moyes...
 
12:55 - Developing; Judge considering ordering mediation so two sides can agree on "indemnity fee" for Leafs and NHL for Balsillie taking Hamilton
 
Probably because that's not at all what is happening. Bankruptcy courts are responsible for ensuring claimants maximize their return by any means necessary. If that includes selling the time to someone who wants to move it, then so be it. The focus is to pay off the claimants creditors, not get involved in the NHL. The court could well decide that JB isn't actually the best deal for Moyes...

I will use a fake/hypothetical example to show what I mean.

Offer 1 is $225 million but is conditional upon moving the team to Sarnia.

Offer 2 is $175 million unconditional.

As a judged deciding on a bankruptcy situation you would think he would naturally decdide on offer 1 as it has the most money, would satisfy the most creditors and might leave money available for unsecured creditors or even some equity investors. The problem, though, is that he has no controll over whether the condition (moving to Sarnia) could ever be satisfied and may actually harm creditors by deciding in favour of the "highest bidder" (ie. if the condition never gets satisfied and the bidder walks away from offer 1 and, by that time, offer 2 is either not there or gets reduced/renegotiated. ).

I think that is why this judge is being dragged into somehow deciding stuff that really is not his jurisdiction. I think he was originally supposed to decide if the club was bankrupt and if Moyes controlled the team or if the NHL did (those are very related as the NHL says they would never have filed for bankruptcy)..........if the NHL controls them there is no bankruptcy filing and there is no pre-negotiated exit from bankruptcy (via a sale to JB)....if Moyse controls them and they are bankrupt, then a bankrutptcy trustee would have to decide if a) those 4 other offers that Bettman spoke of are "real" and b) if any of them (even at a lower price) are "better" than JB's offer......I really am not sure how it came to be that this judge, in this matter, ended up having a say in whether or not the NHL has a right to approve an owner/location.....it would appear to be outside his jurisdiction and, at least, a very could cause for appeal should he decide against the NHL.
 
Seems like the Judge is leaning towards approving possible relocation of the Phoenix Coyotes. The judge is currently looking over all the relocations from the past

2:03 - Judge to other leagues on relocation: "the midnight departure from baltimore did not ruin the NFL. The NFL is fine, everybody's making money
 
Do you know how balsillie's bid is strong?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/647795

Kevin McGran
SPORTS REPORTER

PHOENIX—The NHL would charge billionaire Jim Balsillie $100 million (U.S.) as a relocation fee to move the Coyotes to Hamilton.

Balsillie lawyer Susan Freeman let slip the amount — a dollar figure blacked out in all court documents — in a relocation hearing Tuesday.

Judge Redfield Baum said the league was within its rights to charge a "reasonable" fee and to take a "reasonable" length of time to consider Balsillie's applications to buy and move the team.

Balsillie's lawyer suggested the league was dragging its feet on the applications, hoping to freeze out Balsillie who has threatened to pull his $212.5 million offer to buy the bankrupt team.

Freeman also suggested Balsillie would walk if the $100 million relocation fee was approved by the court. The fee is not set in stone, but may be subject to negotiations.

The judge may order all parties to figure out the relocation fee prior to the June 22 auction, because if Balsillie withdraws, the auction would be moot, as well as many of the other arguments laid out Tuesday.

The court spent much time hearing arguments over anti-trust and bankruptcy law.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is hand for today's sesssion. The NHL commissioner is expected to fly to Pittsburgh right after the hearing.
 

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