Globe: Gun Crime Down This Year

[lordmandeep]

Brown people and Asians do not face as much racism as black people do.

 

[Hydrogen]

You think race has nothing to do with it? From what I see, black people have to endure more racism than everyone else, and surely that makes it harder for them to find jobs.

But this does not automatically or directly explain gun crime - particularly with respect to the so-called "black on black" crimes carried out with guns.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Exactly. Someone is very oblivious to Canadian history. Back then they probably had people saying the same stuff he's saying now about Caribbean immigrants. And let's be realistic here - it's kind of naive to think that today's Italian, Jewish, etc. communities don't produce their own share of criminals. Every single group does.

I'm an English-born immigrant who came here in the 1970s in what can be regarded as a mass of emigration from the UK from the post-war period up to about the mid-1970s. I have never, ever heard of ethnic English gangs or crime syndicates coming out of this post-war immigrant boom from the UK. Did we have gangs of sons of the war brides fighting for turf? I must have missed that one.

Now, in England, they certainly have a youth crime issue, but in Canada, I'd say one of our least troublesome immigrant groups have to be the English, unless you ask the First Nations or French Canadians of course - they'll say they should have topped the first Englishman to hit the beach in the 1500s. But I'm referring to the emigration of English folks to Canada from 1945 to the mid-1970s.

 

[syn]

I'm an English-born immigrant who came here in the 1970s in what can be regarded as a mass of emigration from the UK from the post-war period up to about the mid-1970s. I have never, ever heard of ethnic English gangs or crime syndicates coming out of this post-war immigrant boom from the UK. Did we have gangs of sons of the war brides fighting for turf? I must have missed that one.

Now, in England, they certainly have a youth crime issue, but in Canada, I'd say one of our least troublesome immigrant groups have to be the English, unless you ask the First Nations or French Canadians of course - they'll say they should have topped the first Englishman to hit the beach in the 1500s. But I'm referring to the emigration of English folks to Canada from 1945 to the mid-1970s.

I'm sure many of the criminals in Canada are of British descent.

I'd also say it's kind of silly to compare the experiences of Caribbean and English immigrants, the latter of which were coming into a country which their countrymen controlled for centuries and which only gained complete legislative independence from Britain in 1982.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'd also say it's kind of silly to compare the experiences of Caribbean and English immigrants, the latter of which were coming into a country which their countrymen controlled for centuries and which only gained complete legislative independence from Britain in 1982.

I agree, the comparison doesn't make sense. However you're the one that said...

And let's be realistic here - it's kind of naive to think that today's Italian, Jewish, etc. communities don't produce their own share of criminals. Every single group does..

And it's my belief that people of my background, i.e. English, do not, especially in reference to any sort of closed or solo enthic gangs.

BTW, your use of the term British should be clarified. British refers to anyone with a UK passport who doesn't reside in Northern Ireland (that'd be the UK) and is as multicultural a term as Canadian is today. English refers to the descendants of the mix of Anglo-Saxons, Romano-Britons,the Danish-Vikings and Normans. We're definitely a cross bred lot in origins and definitely not a race unto themselves, but it's worth noting that British and English should not be used interchangeably. BTW, the term England is derived from the Angles, those very early settlers from what today is Schleswig-Holstein in Germany (sometimes disputed with Denmark) who kicked the future Welshmen into Wales.

 

[BuildTO]

You think race has nothing to do with it? From what I see, black people have to endure more racism than everyone else, and surely that makes it harder for them to find jobs.

I think this is the explanation you were looking for at the start. As far as we have come in terms of tolerance, there is still a lot of discrimination against blacks. As someone of East-Asian descent, I have experienced discrimination, but nothing like what my black friends have recounted.

I have personally known three people who have grown up in Regent Park: one white, one East-Asian, and one black. Since I met them, all three have moved up and out. For some families it only takes one generation, and for others, many. But we can't ignore race as a factor when skin colour alone can put up roadblocks to jobs, careers, rental accommodation, and other opportunities.

In a colour-blind world, I don't believe the history of Jamaican immigration would differ from that of any other immigrant group.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You think race has nothing to do with it? From what I see, black people have to endure more racism than everyone else, and surely that makes it harder for them to find jobs.

There was a time not too distant where Jews couldn't get a fair shake at employment. Heck I've read that Timothy Eaton wouldn't even hire Catholics, let alone Jews. So, what did the poor Jewish immigrants do to get by, well they built their own businesses selling to their community. Canada's original poorer Chinese and Asian immigrant communities often started out the same way, selling to each other.

 

[Urban Shocker]

The term "English" does not refer exclusively to "the descendents of the mix of Anglo-Saxons, Romano-Britains, the Danish-Vikings and Normans" that Admiral Beez claims it does.

It refers to anyone who grows up south of Scotland and east of Wales and who survives despite eating all that dreadful food - no matter what their race, religion or creed.

 

[Hydrogen]

Though of no English ancestry, I was called an "english," while growing up in Montreal.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The term "English" does not refer exclusively to "the descendents of the mix of Anglo-Saxons, Romano-Britains, the Danish-Vikings and Normans" that Admiral Beez claims it does.

It refers to anyone who grows up south of Scotland and east of Wales and who survives despite eating all that dreadful food - no matter what their race, religion or creed.

Rubbish. That's akin to saying that anyone born or raised in Canada regardless of background should be referred to as belonging to Canada's First Nations or Aborigional communities (who themselves came to North America from Asia thousands of years before the rest of us).

 

[syn]

I agree, the comparison doesn't make sense. However you're the one that said... And it's my belief that people of my background, i.e. English, do not, especially in reference to any sort of closed or solo enthic gangs.

You honestly think that the English produce no criminals? I can guarantee you that there are criminals in this country of English descent.

As for gangs, England doesn't seem to be free of them either:

http://www.wessexscene.co.uk/article.php?sid=399

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article529711.ece


In any case, no one race produces more criminals than another. Race has nothing to do with it. Someone from any ethnicity can engage in criminal activity; the real issues are socio-economic.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

And the socio-economic factors are affected by, among other things, race.

 

[syn]

And the socio-economic factors are affected by, among other things, race.

That's because of discrimination. No one race is prone to be subject to adverse socio-economic factors more than another. It has no direct connection with race.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You honestly think that the English produce no criminals? I can guarantee you that there are criminals in this country of English descent.

I never said that. What I said is that the post-war immigrant boom from England has not created many (or any I can recall) gangs defined by their English-heritage.

As for gangs, England doesn't seem to be free of them either:

I already said in the posts above that in Britain gangs of all backgrounds are troublesome.

In any case, no one race produces more criminals than another. Race has nothing to do with it. Someone from any ethnicity can engage in criminal activity; the real issues are socio-economic.

I 100% agree. I've never said any one race produces more criminals.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

That's because of discrimination. No one race is prone to be subject to adverse socio-economic factors more than another. It has no direct connection with race.

Discrimnation is a direct connection.