Globe Editorial: Another flip-flop from Harper

[bizorky]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

^And confusing "liberalism" in the European sense of the word for the party platforms of a Canadian political party. Certainly this meaning of "liberal" does not apply in the United States, either, where the word gets applied regulalry as an insult.



Abeja,

I am having difficulty in seeing how the Green Party would address these ideals that you have stated?

 

[tudararms]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

I understand Abeja's dilemma, and respect his point of view far more than many I've read here throughout the thread, where it seems that some are more concerned with partisanship no matter the cost. "Died in the wool" boors get on my nerves, and certainly don't do anything for this country. There have been bad liberals and bad conservatives, and there are well-meaning liberals and well-meaning conservatives, along with all the other parties too. I mean, do people actually advocate a one-party regime for Canada forever? Change is good and it keep parties honest. It is time for the Conservatives now, and believe it or not they probably wont ruin the country or persecute anybody. They may actually accomplish something. Meanwhile, the liberals definately need a purge. To think otherwise is idiocy at worst, pig-headedness at best. Abeja's dilemma is a responsible one and I for one appreciate it.

That said, the Conservatives don't likely give a toss what Torontonians think. They are courting the vote in Quebec where people are tired of both the liberals and the bloc, and they are courting the vote in suburban and rural Ontario where people are tired of liberal pandering to the demands of self-absorbed, out of touch Torontonians. Face it, Conservatives are bound to sweep a majority and we'll be left out in the cold. Just desserts.

 

[andreapalladio]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

it or not they probably wont ruin the country or persecute anybody.

Their public statements notwithstanding.

 

[ganjavih]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

Harper can cruise to majority

 

[bizorky]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

Face it, Conservatives are bound to sweep a majority and we'll be left out in the cold. Just desserts.

This is what your crystal ball tells you? Sure, the Conservatives have their best chance to get into power as a majority now. However, I would not consider this as a certainty. This is a new government, and holding off an election as long as possible may be a great benefit for both the Liberals and the NDP. What many voters want is stability, and if the party in power offers that, they will likely receive some votes for that reason alone. If they begin to look arrogant, particularly as a minority, the damage can be extreme.

Here is the part you are missing in your analysis. The Conservatives are likely to be undone by taking up radical positions that don't respect the views of a majority of Canadians. Canada's diversity and desire for stability and accomodation makes it increasingly difficult to weigh one large group of people against another. People in this country dislike seeing the wealthy get a free ride just because they are wealthy, and don't enjoy having their "live and let live" attitude come to be questioned by government policies that don't reflect that approach to life. People want a stable and fair society; and generally speaking are not interested in pitting conservative social beliefs against that workable and tested live and let live approach.

The Conservatives, if they want to stay in power, have to become more middle of the road. That is their key to being the government for a long time. That means giving up the more extremist policies and favouring the centre ever more. And that means looking more like the Liberals than they may want to admit to.

The greatest successes of the Conservative party in the latter half of the twentieth century came during the existence of the Progressive Conservatives. The present Conservative party may find themselves needing that progressive element if they are to make headway in urban areas. Any quick review of Stephen Harper's beliefs of the past and what he speaks of today shows that either his attitude is maturing, or that he is just keeping is more extreme beliefs under cover. If he chooses to expose these beliefs in a majority government, it probably will be at his own peril.

Canada is nation of radical centrists. Any party that understand this has a chance at forming a majority in the federal parliament.

 

[ganjavih]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

^ Maybe the Conservatives have learned that they can't be radical. They've certainly played it safe so far.

 

[tudararms]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

I agree ganjavih. Harper had to appear to be sympathetic to the far right elements of his support base so as to ensure securing power. However, as most Canadians are fairly middle of the road, be it centrist conservative or centrist liberal, Harper no doubt understands that he must now turn his focus away from the extremists to the larger and more lucrative support base of moderate Conservatives. Harper has at least one year before the liberals will likely have reorganized and before which it would likely be political suicide for any party to bring down the house. In the meantime he will continue to court growing support in Quebec, cement his support out West, and build the confidence and trust of moderate Conservatives throughout rural and suburban Ontario. Toronto be damned! The city is a lost cause of socialist NDPers and far left liberals, and Harper doesn't need its support anyway.

 

[afransen TO]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

His policies are bound to screw all of Ontario, from the rural areas right up to Toronto. I suppose he will garner support in Ontario despite this, but I don't think he we have a huge breakthrough here.

 

[adma]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

The city is a lost cause of socialist NDPers and far left liberals, and Harper doesn't need its support anyway.

Think of what happened in the urban North and Scotland under Thatcher. Essentially, any remaining electability the Tories had in Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow was destroyed by 1983/87, practically defying the cratering of Labour support elsewhere. Just dead weight jettisoned in the pursuit of power...

 

[bizorky]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

Toronto be damned! The city is a lost cause of socialist NDPers and far left liberals, and Harper doesn't need its support anyway.

Toronto is a lost cause? Maybe you check out the title of this forum.

 

[afransen TO]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

I think he's more explaining the point of view of conservative strategists.

 

[tudararms]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

^Yes of course. I guess I didn't place my tongue firmly enough in my cheek.

 

[xanidu2]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

Stephen Harper is the first prime Minister Canada has ever had, who is in fact dumber than the majority.

I hope he's a fast learner.

 

[afransen TO]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

No, Harper is not less intelligent than average. He has a masters degree in economics. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

Re: Globe Editorial: More flip-flops from Harper.

Stephen Harper is the first prime Minister Canada has ever had, who is in fact dumber than the majority.

You just keep thinking that way. We'll remind you of your commentary when the "dumb" PM takes his majority.