General railway discussions

[Urban Sky]

Just stop! Please. No more!

Just like I just did in the “VIA Rail” thread, a friendly reminder that whenever you jump over a stick a troll holds for you, the troll wins, as his motivation to troll is fueled by any attention he receives…

 

[micheal_can]

Just stop! Please. No more!

Freight rail's networks being majority single track has nothing to do with the large amount trucks you're seeing on the highway.

Trucks have to haul goods to southern Ontario because the closest container yard is in Brampton.

Or what most likely happens, the container goes from the Intermodal yard to a nearby "cross dock" warehouse, where the contents of the container get transferred to a truck trailer. The empty container is then shipped back via truck to the Intermodal facility while another truck hauls the newly loaded trailer to somewhere in Southern Ontario.

CN and CPKC aren't going to construct any Intermodal facilities in Southern Ontario. So you're going to continue to see quite a few trucks on the 401.

CN's new Intermodal yard they're building in Milton will probably better serve Southern Ontario.

I noticed a lot of the land around the Intermodal facility is for sale. I'm guessing a lot of warehouses/ cross dock facilities are going to setup around the Milton Yard. The containers will most likely travel a short distance by truck, but the truck trailers will travel much further.

I'll give a great example of what I mean -The Canadian Tire distribution warehouse in Brampton by the 407.The CN Halton sub goes right by it.Why is that there is not a spur off of it and an intermodal train rolls into there, the containers are loaded and unloaded? Canadian Tire even has their own branded containers.

CN And CP are only doing what they have to do to keep what is going going. But intemodal yards do not need to be owned by them.There could be an intermodal yard in London for example. That would mean that that freight does not need to be on a truck from a GTA yard to get to/from the London area. Just that would not remove all trucks, but it would likely lower them by a noticeable amount. That is what is needed. Instead of cross docking onto a truck or into a trailer for a truck, it should cross docked to a train going closer to the destination.

 

[Bojaxs]

I'll give a great example of what I mean -The Canadian Tire distribution warehouse in Brampton by the 407.The CN Halton sub goes right by it.Why is that there is not a spur off of it and an intermodal train rolls into there, the containers are loaded and unloaded? Canadian Tire even has their own branded containers.

I work as a crane operator at Brampton Intermodal. I've loaded more Canadian Tire containers onto CN trains and truck chassis then I care to remember. Your "great example" is a ridiculous idea and won't work. It would mess up the scheduling CN has for every train coming into and going out of the yard.

If we "hypothetically" created a spur line into the CT distribution centre beside Brampton Intermodal, we would first have to "strip" all the containers off of a train currently in the yard, and then load it all entirely with "Toronto bound" CT containers. Obviously we're not going to load this "special" train with CT cans going to Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, etc. Afterwards we would then have to bring in a crew to pull the train out of Brampton Intermodal and then back it into the CT distribution centre. This would be an incredible waste of CN's time, resources and manpower. They would have no interest in doing such a thing. CN would bill this as a premium service and in the end it would be cheaper for CT to just continue sending their drivers into the yard to drop off empties and pickup loads.

Not to mention by the time we finish "building" this special CT train. CT could have already sent their drivers into Brampton Intermodal to pickup most of the cans by trucks. They're right next door after all.

it should cross docked to a train going closer to the destination.

What!? How do you cross dock to a train? Are you referring to box cars?

CN And CP are only doing what they have to do to keep what is going going. But intemodal yards do not need to be owned by them.There could be an intermodal yard in London for example.

If it made economical sense to build an intermodal facility in London, CN and CPKC would have done it already. Maybe in another 50 years when the population gets bigger and can warrant it.

@micheal_can, I should bring you to my boss's office in Brampton, and you can sit down and tell him everything CN is doing wrong. Maybe he'll hook you up with the CEO?

 

[micheal_can]

I work as a crane operator at Brampton Intermodal. I've loaded more Canadian Tire containers onto CN trains and truck chassis then I care to remember. You're "great example" is a ridiculous idea and won't work. It would mess up the scheduling CN has for every train coming into and going out of the yard.

You mean how they don't have double track going West (north)?Hence the other part of double track.

If we "hypothetically" created a spur line into the CT distribution centre beside Brampton Intermodal, we would first have to "strip" all the containers off of a train currently in the yard, and then load it all entirely with "Toronto bound" CT containers. Obviously we're not going to load this "special" train with CT cans going to Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, etc. Afterwards we would then have to bring in a crew to pull the train out of Brampton Intermodal and then back it into the CT distribution centre. This would be an incredible waste of CN's time, resources and manpower. They would have no interest in doing such a thing. CN would bill this as a premium service and in the end it would be cheaper for CT to just continue sending their drivers into the yard to drop off empties and pickup loads.

If I understand it correctly, between Vancouver and Toronto, the train that leaves does not always stay as one train throughout the entire journey. That 'special train' would not be any more special than any other train going along the line. For the example of London, it could all be marshaled for other containers for other clients going to London,like the massive Amazon warehouse near St Thomas.

What!? How do you cross dock to a train? Are you referring to box cars?

No, and I know that it is simply marshaling.So, it comes from one train and is over on another track fora train going on somewhere else. I used that to show that moving containers throughout the yard is likely easier if it stays on the train than to switch to trucks,

If it made economical sense to build an intermodal facility in London, CN and CPKC would have done it already. Maybe in another 50 years when the population gets bigger and can warrant it.

@micheal_can, I should bring you to my boss's office in Brampton, and you can sit down and tell him everything CN is doing wrong. Maybe he'll hook you up with the CEO?

Their ROI is so short that unless it was dictated to them by some other higher authority (Of which I know I am not even close to that)They won't do it. That is why I said it was a soap box thing. There are solutions, but someone has to pay for them.Since no one wants to pay for them because they won't make the money back fast enough, nothing gets done. Last I heard most corporations won't do anything that takes longer than 3-5years ROI.Since something like that would take 10-20 years, they do not see the benefit. Having said that, if they did build it, it would not be like it would be a money losing facility.

 

[Bojaxs]

I'm done. Seriously. I'm going to join everyone else in blocking you. Goodbye.

 

[Allandale25]

https://keystonenewsroom.com/2024/10/29/bob-casey-and-matt-cartwright-revive-scrantons-rail-service-to-new-york-city/

 

[Allandale25]

 

[Fritter]

Having just been in Uxbridge, I am curious of what is to happen to all the former York Durham rolling stock currently just sitting in the yard in Uxbridge. Is it still owned by whatever entity still exists that is York Durham Heritage Railway? Is it now owned by the Township of Uxbridge to be transferred to whomever might operate a new tourist Railway, or is it just abandoned ?

 

[micheal_can]

Having just been in Uxbridge, I am curious of what is to happen to all the former York Durham rolling stock currently just sitting in the yard in Uxbridge. Is it still owned by whatever entity still exists that is York Durham Heritage Railway? Is it now owned by the Township of Uxbridge to be transferred to whomever might operate a new tourist Railway, or is it just abandoned ?

As I understand it, it is still owned by the York Durham Heritage Railway. They are being forced to vacate the area and must liquidate everything.

 

[lenaitch]

They declared bankruptcy last year and were selling off assets. I don't know how successful they were but it seems that if there is still a bunch still sitting in the yard, not very. What remains will probably just sit there until the court orders it sold for scrap or finds a salvage company that will take title of it. As far as I know, Metrolinx owns the right-of-way and probably don't much care how long it sits there, and the town only owns the station and the plot it is sitting on. I assume any YDHR assets that were inside and now removed.

What their spat with the town first started they were hopeful, possibly naively, that they could find a new home. I guess they could not.

 

[crs1026]

^There were two rounds of bidding..... the first round was reportedly won by an individual who took the whole lot as a package, only to discover that the cost of removal was beyond their budget and reneged on their bid. The rumour mill says that the same bidder won the second round and has lined up an interim storage location, but there is also the appearance of a local venture that may be angling to keep things in place with new management. The bidders had to sign an NDA for the whole process so nothing has been said officially.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

I've been riding the rails more and often look at factories or warehouses that have spur lines to connect them to the mainlines. There's many of these on the Lakeshore West GO line.

How does a company get a spur line? For example, we want to open a feed mill in Pontypool, ON where the line to Peterborough splits at the old grain elevator.

Ontario Railway Network (ORWN)

This dataset provides enhanced spatial and attribute data for a suite of seven data classes that form the Ontario Railway Network.

geohub.lio.gov.on.ca

Assuming you have the environmental and zoning approvals, do you just call up CN/CP and ask for a spur line? What does it cost?

And if one was shopping for an industrial site, how do you know if it has a spur line? It's not a drop down on realtor.ca or commercial real estate sites I've seen.

 

[just east of the creek]

I've been riding the rails more and often look at factories or warehouses that have spur lines to connect them to the mainlines. There's many of these on the Lakeshore West GO line.

How does a company get a spur line? For example, we want to open a feed mill in Pontypool, ON where the line to Peterborough splits at the old grain elevator.

Ontario Railway Network (ORWN)

This dataset provides enhanced spatial and attribute data for a suite of seven data classes that form the Ontario Railway Network.

geohub.lio.gov.on.ca

Assuming you have the environmental and zoning approvals, do you just call up CN/CP and ask for a spur line? What does it cost?

And if one was shopping for an industrial site, how do you know if it has a spur line? It's not a drop down on realtor.ca or commercial real estate sites I've seen.

Both companies web sites have business development pages to speak to this question, as well as teams to follow up. Costs are variable and depend on a number of factors revolving around your location and access. Have a look.

 

[crs1026]

Both companies web sites have business development pages to speak to this question, as well as teams to follow up. Costs are variable and depend on a number of factors revolving around your location and access. Have a look.

Be prepared for the quote to be quite breath-taking, if the railway does not want to serve that location. If the railway perceives the location as forcing extra switching moves, or delaying a train that needs to get to its destination in a hurry, they may quote very high. Or suggest an alternative location, or a transload.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Be prepared for the quote to be quite breath-taking, if the railway does not want to serve that location. If the railway perceives the location as forcing extra switching moves, or delaying a train that needs to get to its destination in a hurry, they may quote very high. Or suggest an alternative location, or a transload.

- Paul

I thought CPKC only had 1 or at most 2 customers left on the line......which moves at a creekingly slow speed. (eventually this may be HSR trackage, albeit with many modifications) .....

I can't imagine adding a single customer on a low performing line would be a terrible hassle, and not improve the financial performance of the line.

Of course, that presumes the connection is a short one that isn't overly costly to build.

I can't see any current splits of the line near Pontypool, but I do see evidence of a former one, mostly lost to forest:

The grain elevator is just out of picture to the left.