Bordercollie
Senior Member
Do they still have "extra" runs like the good old days.
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General railway discussions
- Thread starter Urban Sky
- Start date
drum118
Superstar
No idea and maybe others know better than me
crs1026
Senior Member
With PSR, traffic is held until a minimum threshold length -potentially 8,000+ feet of train - has accumulated. Short trains, even on a premium pay basis, are extremely rare these days.
The Detroit tunnels are not capable of handling double stack containers. CP runs a daily double stack intermodal train from Chicago through Cleveland and Buffalo to Toronto to bypass the Windsor tunnel. Single stack container trains don't have the productivity to be economic, so CP doesn't run these any more through Windsor-Detroit.
The bigger problem is... the traffic that is being blockaded is not container based, but rather is mostly trailer based. Neither CN nor CP have any interest in "piggyback" traffic, and don't have many - if any - ramps to handle piggyback.
While there is a lot of traffic passing through the border, not enough of it is concentrated on any one route to create a viable rail demand....the trucks converge on the border, and once across they fan out on a variety of routes. That's too much loading and sorting and shuffling and unloading again to be viable for the short distance that is covered. Even the through 401 to I-75 business (which in theory might make a piggyback service between say Woodstock and Dayton attractive as a fantasy suggested service) has too much first/last leg variability. One would have to find drayage at each end, and loading/unloading delay would be unfavourable.
I certainly have wondered why this can't be overcome, especially with the volumes of truck traffic that pass daily..... but to answer the original question - to configure a temporary patch service just to offset the blockades, is highly unlikely, especially at the price point that would be required and with any sort of competitive end to end velocity.
- Paul
The Detroit tunnels are not capable of handling double stack containers. CP runs a daily double stack intermodal train from Chicago through Cleveland and Buffalo to Toronto to bypass the Windsor tunnel. Single stack container trains don't have the productivity to be economic, so CP doesn't run these any more through Windsor-Detroit.
The bigger problem is... the traffic that is being blockaded is not container based, but rather is mostly trailer based. Neither CN nor CP have any interest in "piggyback" traffic, and don't have many - if any - ramps to handle piggyback.
While there is a lot of traffic passing through the border, not enough of it is concentrated on any one route to create a viable rail demand....the trucks converge on the border, and once across they fan out on a variety of routes. That's too much loading and sorting and shuffling and unloading again to be viable for the short distance that is covered. Even the through 401 to I-75 business (which in theory might make a piggyback service between say Woodstock and Dayton attractive as a fantasy suggested service) has too much first/last leg variability. One would have to find drayage at each end, and loading/unloading delay would be unfavourable.
I certainly have wondered why this can't be overcome, especially with the volumes of truck traffic that pass daily..... but to answer the original question - to configure a temporary patch service just to offset the blockades, is highly unlikely, especially at the price point that would be required and with any sort of competitive end to end velocity.
- Paul
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lenaitch
Senior Member
One wonders, when all of this is over, whether some industries may re-think just-in-time supply management and go back to actually having warehouses.
allengeorge
Senior Member
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Saskatchewan, Ottawa look to end historic tax exemption for CP Rail
CP Rail has paid taxes to Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba since 1966. It is seeking $341-million as repayment from Saskatchewan, citing an 1880 deal that exempted the railway from paying provincial taxes
www.theglobeandmail.com
TIL that there's a constitutional (?!) tax exemption for CP in parts of the country? I'm incredibly confused. At first I thought that this was in the provincial constitutions, but I don't understand why the House of Commons has to vote to amend them (I thought provinces could amend their constitutions unilaterally?)
Clearly I don't understand federal/provincial constitutions or constitutional law.
Northern Light
Superstar
Saskatchewan, Ottawa look to end historic tax exemption for CP Rail
CP Rail has paid taxes to Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba since 1966. It is seeking $341-million as repayment from Saskatchewan, citing an 1880 deal that exempted the railway from paying provincial taxes
TIL that there's a constitutional (?!) tax exemption for CP in parts of the country? I'm incredibly confused. At first I thought that this was in the provincial constitutions, but I don't understand why the House of Commons has to vote to amend them (I thought provinces could amend their constitutions unilaterally?)
Clearly I don't understand federal/provincial constitutions or constitutional law.
Ok, let me try.
1) There are no provincial constitutions in Canada as such. That is to say there are no definitive written documents codified as a 'Provincial Constitution' per se.
2) There are, however, province-specific provisions of the Constitution of Canada.
Of note:
Arguably most fundamental to provincial constitutions is their unwritten nature.
From: https://policyoptions.irpp.org/maga...ovincial-constitution-and-how-do-we-amend-it/
Further elaboration from Wikipedia:
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Canada
In this specific case, the originating deal was a deal between Ottawa (the Federal government) and CP Rail that proceeded the existence of Saskatchewan. As such the agreement would be considered part of the Constitution of Canada, as I understand it.
This is similar to amendments made to allow the abolition of denominational public education in Newfoundland and Quebec.
Its a bit more involved that what I've posted, but the links are fairly fulsome in their explanations.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Man, one can really get into the weeds here. The Saskatchewan Act (1905) is a federal statute considered part of the Constitution of Canada by virtue of Section 52 (and the schedule further on). It established the province. Section 53 says the statutes listed in the schedule are repealed/amended as listed but, if not, remain in force. Nothing is indicated (in the version cited) that Act has been repealed/amended.
The Saskatchewan Act says:
Unfortunately, I couldn't find said contract, but it seems there is general agreement that it exempts the company from certain taxes. This should be fairly simple. A Constitutional amendment impacting on a single province is fairly straight forward, and I read somewhere that the company really isn't objecting. It doesn't seem to be huge pile of money and they'll just pass it on anyway.
The Saskatchewan Act says:
24. The powers hereby granted to the said province shall be exercised subject to the provisions of section 16 of the contract set forth in the schedule to chapter 1 of the statutes of 1881, being an Act respecting the Canadian Pacific Railway Company.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find said contract, but it seems there is general agreement that it exempts the company from certain taxes. This should be fairly simple. A Constitutional amendment impacting on a single province is fairly straight forward, and I read somewhere that the company really isn't objecting. It doesn't seem to be huge pile of money and they'll just pass it on anyway.
Northern Light
Superstar
I can LeNaitch too! LOL
schedule to Chapter 1 of the Statutes of 1881 (Canada), being an Act respecting the Canadian Pacific Railway, by which statute the contract was approved and ratified. Clause 16 provides that: "The Canadian Pacific, and all stations and station grounds, work shops, buildings, yards and other property, rolling stock and appurtenances required and used for the construction and working thereof, and the capital stock of the Company, shall be forever free from taxation by the Dominion, or by any province hereafter to be established, or by any municipal corporation therein ..." Clause 14 gave to the Company the right to construct and work branch lines of railway from any point along its main line to any point or points within the territory of the Dominion.
Source:
C.P.R. v. A.G. for Saskatchewan - SCC Cases
This page contains a form to search the Supreme Court of Canada case information database. You can search by the SCC 5-digit case number, by name or word in the style of cause, or by file number from the appeal court.
smallspy
Senior Member
That's only partially true.
The Detroit tunnel has clearance for standard autoracks and double-stacked containers - provided they are sea boxes.
Double-stacked domestic hi-cube cans, however, can not fit within the tunnel. (Nor, for that matter, can the super-sized 22' autoracks such as Auto-Maxes.)
CPR used to run a regular container train from Chicago to Montreal through there, but I suspect that the popularity of the hi-cube container made it far more effort than they felt necessary to justify the service. There are photos of a reasonably full train, with hi-cube containers occupying a single well with nothing on top of them.
Dan
roger1818
Active Member
roger1818
Active Member
Chinese coaches arrive in Montréal
CANADA: The first two of 44 double-deck coaches which Montréal city region transport agency Exo has ordered from Chinese manufacturer CRRC Tangshan are expected to be delivered during February. They will undergo minor finishing work and inspection at the Pointe-Saint-Charles maintenance depot...
www.railwaygazette.com
dowlingm
Senior Member
Exo to buy 10 x Chargers to replace 10 ex-GO F59PH, which are now over 30 years old.Chinese coaches arrive in Montréal
CANADA: The first two of 44 double-deck coaches which Montréal city region transport agency Exo has ordered from Chinese manufacturer CRRC Tangshan are expected to be delivered during February. They will undergo minor finishing work and inspection at the Pointe-Saint-Charles maintenance depot...
Montreal's Exo orders Charger locomotives to update fleet - Trains
MONTREAL — Commuter rail operator Exo has ordered 10 Siemens Charger locomotives to replace its older locomotives with more fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly motive power. “We are excited to partner with Exo and look forward to working with them to modernize their fleet with the latest...
www.trains.com
The capability to run 10-packs, vs 8-packs with the F59s, is specifically mentioned.
Rail News - Exo purchases 10 Siemens Charger locomotives. For Railroad Career Professionals
www.progressiverailroading.com
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Hopefully this won't be the same situation as the Hyundai Cars. The money saved ended up being more of a hassle.Chinese coaches arrive in Montréal
CANADA: The first two of 44 double-deck coaches which Montréal city region transport agency Exo has ordered from Chinese manufacturer CRRC Tangshan are expected to be delivered during February. They will undergo minor finishing work and inspection at the Pointe-Saint-Charles maintenance depot...
Allandale25
Senior Member
Chinese coaches arrive in Montréal
CANADA: The first two of 44 double-deck coaches which Montréal city region transport agency Exo has ordered from Chinese manufacturer CRRC Tangshan are expected to be delivered during February. They will undergo minor finishing work and inspection at the Pointe-Saint-Charles maintenance depot...
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Nobody checked the height of the cars? I guess they dont have couplers installed which is why they are on a flat car.