General railway discussions

[reaperexpress]

In fairness, just because they can, does not necessarily mean they should. High floors have a greater degree of flexibility because of the full swivelling motion of the trucks, but if a driver powers up midway through a turn, it makes for a massively uncomfortable ride even so.

I'm not sure how fast the TTC streetcars turn, but I'd be shocked if it's faster than 15 km/h. At the ride quality offered by Flexitys, I'd want a seatbelt!

During the rollout of Flexities, I did a study of turning speeds at Queens Quay and Bathurst, CLRV's averaged 15 km/h and Flexities averaged around 11 km/h. Based on interviews with operators, the slower speeds on Flexities were due to a combination of concerns about dewiring, and discomfort due to the jerky motion of the Flexities around corners (due to the awkward wheel arrangement). I haven't done another study since they switched to pantographs, but I suspect that it remains about the same, since the main limitation was discomfort.

 

[T3G]

Thanks for confirming that. I don't know of any tram network in the world where fast speeds through a turn are sactioned. There may be operators who play games (having ridden on some of these speedy Tatras myself), but I would assume the risk of derailment is far too high to officially permit anything like that.

I like it, one of my least favourite things about buses is how, even when you are sitting down, a fast enough turn will risk throwing you out of your seat. Streetcars are a much more comfortable ride for the lack of that alone, even if ride quality has suffered since the CLRVs retired.

 

[reaperexpress]

The curve at QQ and Bathurst is tighter than most of the curves on Ion though

 

[KevinT]

The Outlooks do have a heck of a kick when they corner at any speed other than crawling - especially in the back of the back segment.

I've heard that ION's track was laid with spiral curves to work better with the fixed bogies in the Flexities, but even still you feel the lurch when a corner starts and stops. Probably not as much as on the TTC system though.

 

[nfitz]

I've heard that ION's track was laid with spiral curves to work better with the fixed bogies in the Flexities, but even still you feel the lurch when a corner starts and stops. Probably not as much as on the TTC system though.

Might depend on the speed. I don't notice when they do it slowly - but the rare curve at an intersection with no switches, etc., can be interesting. Fortunately they are rare - though most seem to be on the 506 - which is what I use primarily!

 

[reaperexpress]

I've heard that ION's track was laid with spiral curves to work better with the fixed bogies in the Flexities, but even still you feel the lurch when a corner starts and stops. Probably not as much as on the TTC system though.

Might depend on the speed. I don't notice when they do it slowly - but the rare curve at an intersection with no switches, etc., can be interesting. Fortunately they are rare - though most seem to be on the 506 - which is what I use primarily!

The curves on the Queensway are significantly banked (see below). I figure if the curves are superelevated, it's safe to assume that there are also spiral transitions in and out of the curves. Typically the spiral portion is also the portion where the superelevation is ramped up and down.

I suspect that the curves at intersections are built without spiral transitions given the space constraints.

 

[Northern Light]

The Feds will be holding a presser in Winnipeg later today to announce some money towards improving the Hudson's Bay Railway which is the corridor that heads up to Churchill.

Announcement at 1pm.

Minister Vandal and Premier Stefanson to announce major funding for the Arctic Gateway Group, connecting Northern Manitoba communities

Manitoba Premier Heather Stefanson and The Honourable Daniel Vandal, Minister for PrairiesCan, will announce investments for the Arctic Gateway Group Partnership Limited and Northern Connectivity.

www.canada.ca

Could be big/small; though it has attracted the Premier of Manitoba to the event.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I suspect significant money, but a lot of that going to the port.

 

[Towered]

I suspect significant money, but a lot of that going to the port.

Wasn't there talk of building a LNG terminal there?

 

[lenaitch]

Wasn't there talk of building a LNG terminal there?

Nothing that I have heard beyond some western energy nabobs looking attract investment:

Western Energy Corridor — Home Page

www.westernenergycorridor.ca

It would either be a very short season or limited to ice-rated LNG ships. I don't know but I imagine that fleet is fairly small.

There has been some talk about flipping the Saint John NB LNG receiving site into a shipping site. I find it interesting that people discuss the issue of maritime LNG shipping in terms of the disruptions caused by the Russo-Ukrainian War, ignoring the fact that these are multi-decade projects.

 

[Northern Light]

Manitoba's press release on the HBR funds:

Province of Manitoba | News Releases | Arctic Gateway Group's Hudson Bay Railway on Track to Support Northern Connectivity Through Historic Partnership Between Canada and Manitoba

Province of Manitoba

news.gov.mb.ca

From the above:


"The Arctic Gateway Group is a partnership between 41 First Nation and Bayline communities. The Hudson Bay Railway, owned and operated by the Arctic Gateway Group, is the only affordable year-round, all-weather mode of transportation for both passenger and freight trains to access several northern Manitoba communities. The rail line is essential for supply chains, local food security, regional connectivity and its unique community-ownership model represents ongoing steps toward economic reconciliation in Canada.

Today, Manitoba Premier Heather Stefanson and the Honourable Daniel Vandal, member of Parliament for Saint Boniface – Saint Vital, Minister for PrairiesCan, Minister of Northern Affairs and Minister for CanNor, announced a joint investment of up to $147.6 million over two years to the Arctic Gateway Group. The governments of Canada and Manitoba are coming together in an historic partnership to support this rail line and future opportunities for northern Manitoba. The Government of Canada will invest up to an additional $60 million on top of its existing support of the Arctic Gateway Group, and the Manitoba government will invest up to $73.8 million. These investments will be distributed over two years and support a program of significant upgrades as well as the operation and maintenance of the Hudson Bay Railway."


So far, I haven't found a backgrounder w/the details.

 

[Bordercollie]

Manitoba's press release on the HBR funds:

Province of Manitoba | News Releases | Arctic Gateway Group's Hudson Bay Railway on Track to Support Northern Connectivity Through Historic Partnership Between Canada and Manitoba

Province of Manitoba

news.gov.mb.ca

From the above:


"The Arctic Gateway Group is a partnership between 41 First Nation and Bayline communities. The Hudson Bay Railway, owned and operated by the Arctic Gateway Group, is the only affordable year-round, all-weather mode of transportation for both passenger and freight trains to access several northern Manitoba communities. The rail line is essential for supply chains, local food security, regional connectivity and its unique community-ownership model represents ongoing steps toward economic reconciliation in Canada.

Today, Manitoba Premier Heather Stefanson and the Honourable Daniel Vandal, member of Parliament for Saint Boniface – Saint Vital, Minister for PrairiesCan, Minister of Northern Affairs and Minister for CanNor, announced a joint investment of up to $147.6 million over two years to the Arctic Gateway Group. The governments of Canada and Manitoba are coming together in an historic partnership to support this rail line and future opportunities for northern Manitoba. The Government of Canada will invest up to an additional $60 million on top of its existing support of the Arctic Gateway Group, and the Manitoba government will invest up to $73.8 million. These investments will be distributed over two years and support a program of significant upgrades as well as the operation and maintenance of the Hudson Bay Railway."


So far, I haven't found a backgrounder w/the details.

Interesting. Hopefully the investment will bring higher speeds on the line allowing for shorter travel times. Possibly refurbishing the track bed to accomodate heavier loads?

 

[lenaitch]

Interesting. Hopefully the investment will bring higher speeds on the line allowing for shorter travel times. Possibly refurbishing the track bed to accomodate heavier loads?

"Higher speeds" in freight terms. I don't know what the weight classification of their mainline is, but there are practical limits in what you can with a roadbed laid primarily on muskeg and peat bogs. I would think their main goals would be to remove or limit permanent slow orders, improve stability and future-proof against flooding. Getting there consistently, year-round, is a better business model than getting there faster.

 

[Bordercollie]

"Higher speeds" in freight terms. I don't know what the weight classification of their mainline is, but there are practical limits in what you can with a roadbed laid primarily on muskeg and peat bogs. I would think their main goals would be to remove or limit permanent slow orders, improve stability and future-proof against flooding. Getting there consistently, year-round, is a better business model than getting there faster.

The removal of slow orders would make the trip faster.... right?

 

[ViewfromtheLake]

"Higher speeds" in freight terms. I don't know what the weight classification of their mainline is, but there are practical limits in what you can with a roadbed laid primarily on muskeg and peat bogs. I would think their main goals would be to remove or limit permanent slow orders, improve stability and future-proof against flooding. Getting there consistently, year-round, is a better business model than getting there faster.

The port is only open late June through November. I‘ve always thought these rail improvements could be spent better elsewhere improving transit times and capacities. But maybe they are anticipating global warming…..