General railway discussions

[Admiral Beez]

There been talk since Ford bought the station of having more Amtrak service to it as well the reviving the Toronto- Chicago service along with a commuter line service. I believe they have allow for 4 tracks to be reinstall there. It will be slow going through Windsor using the Essex tracks that will have to be upgraded for faster speed. The equipment will have to be VIA new sets or power on both ends

Service to Chicago would be good. Wife and I are planning an Amtrak tour from Chicago to Seattle, then Seattle to Los Angeles, then LA back to Chicago, in a big, five day (plus touring days) triangle. We would fly on Porter to Midway, but if there's a train from Union right to Chicago's Amtrak station that would be good. Slow is fine. Some chatter from last November below.

Chicago-Toronto train service to return by 2027

The business case for a cross-border passenger rail connection was submitted by Amtrak and VIA Rail late October, and the mayors of Detroit and Windsor have both sent letters of support to Transport Canada.

www.transportaction.ca

Toronto to NYC and Chicago should be a given for fast crossborder passenger rail. What about Boston?

 

[roger1818]

Service to Chicago would be good. Wife and I are planning an Amtrak tour from Chicago to Seattle, then Seattle to Los Angeles, then LA back to Chicago, in a big, five day (plus touring days) triangle. We would fly on Porter to Midway, but if there's a train from Union right to Chicago's Amtrak station that would be good. Slow is fine. Some chatter from last November below.

Chicago-Toronto train service to return by 2027

The business case for a cross-border passenger rail connection was submitted by Amtrak and VIA Rail late October, and the mayors of Detroit and Windsor have both sent letters of support to Transport Canada.

www.transportaction.ca

Interesting report. It wouldn't be a single train from Union to Chicago though. You would have to change trains in Windsor (or possibly Detroit).

 

[Admiral Beez]

Interesting report. It wouldn't be a single train from Union to Chicago though. You would have to change trains in Windsor (or possibly Detroit).

Bummer. If we can run Toronto to NYC direct, why not Chicago?

 

[Allandale25]

Amtrak set to break ridership record in 2024 - Trains

Amtrak set to break ridership record in 2024, according to testimony by CEO Stephen Gardner before House subcommittee on June 12, 2024.

www.trains.com

 

[blaixx]

Bummer. If we can run Toronto to NYC direct, why not Chicago?

On the route to NYC, you have to get off the train with all of your baggage and go through customs which is a 1-2 hour delay. Even though you get back on the same train, it's not exactly "direct".

 

[Admiral Beez]

On the route to NYC, you have to get off the train with all of your baggage and go through customs which is a 1-2 hour delay. Even though you get back on the same train, it's not exactly "direct".

I didn’t know that. I’ve always gotten off at Niagara Falls, ON. You’d figure they could do pre-clearance with a sealed car from Toronto to Buffalo.

 

[nfitz]

I didn’t know that. I’ve always gotten off at Niagara Falls, ON. You’d figure they could do pre-clearance with a sealed car from Toronto to Buffalo.

Once we get hourly GO at Niagara Falls, it might simply be better for everyone to terminate the New York train at Niagara Falls (Ontario) station, and have everyone clear there, similar to how the do at Vancouver and (I assume) at Montreal Central, where they run non-stop after crossing the border.

 

[micheal_can]

Once we get hourly GO at Niagara Falls, it might simply be better for everyone to terminate the New York train at Niagara Falls (Ontario) station, and have everyone clear there, similar to how the do at Vancouver and (I assume) at Montreal Central, where they run non-stop after crossing the border.

Why would they not just do what they do for Vancouver and have no other stops between Toronto and the border?

 

[drum118]

Why would they not just do what they do for Vancouver and have no other stops between Toronto and the border?

Not everyone is going to Toronto from Windsor/USA. To do it, the cost will be higher, but a shorter travel time. If you are going somewhere else, it can be hours of wait time for the local train to get you to where you want to go. Same going to the US.

I stand to be corrected, but there are no stops from the border to Vancouver which is a short section than to Toronto.

In Europe in 2012, inspectors got on the train and asked for your passport and where you were going and that happen while the train was moving when crossing from some country to another. I cross 13 country borders. In 2022, never saw inspectors at all for the 9 we cross. The only place we saw inspection was at the airport where we landed at and departed from even though in different countries that used face recognition along with your passport. Face recognition is shared with all EU countries and had no issue with it as it will be the future for everything. Some grocery stores do it especially Walmart at self checkout.

As a note, you cannot go from Vancouver to SF or LA without changing trains

 

[roger1818]

Once we get hourly GO at Niagara Falls, it might simply be better for everyone to terminate the New York train at Niagara Falls (Ontario) station, and have everyone clear there, similar to how the do at Vancouver and (I assume) at Montreal Central, where they run non-stop after crossing the border.

I seem to remember reading that you don't pre-clear both customs and immigration in Vancouver (only one, but I can't remember which), and that is why the train still needs to stop at the boarder, just for less time. There were plans to change this, but I don't know if this ever happened.

As for Montreal, there are plans to build pre-clearance facilities but AFAIK, they haven't been completed, so you need to clear both customs and immigration at the boarder.

A pre-clearance facility in Niagara Falls (either ON or NY) or a pedestrian walkway between the stations would certainly make sense.

Why would they not just do what they do for Vancouver and have no other stops between Toronto and the border?

The distance is too far for it to be viable to run an express train from the boarder. The only way to make the Maple Leaf viable is for VIA to operate it as a local train north of the boarder. A big part of the problem is that Lake Ontario is in the way, thus the train is far less competitive to flying than it normally would be if they could take a direct path.

 

[micheal_can]

Not everyone is going to Toronto from Windsor/USA. To do it, the cost will be higher, but a shorter travel time. If you are going somewhere else, it can be hours of wait time for the local train to get you to where you want to go. Same going to the US.

I meant the existing Maple Leaf service.

The distance is too far for it to be viable to run an express train from the boarder. The only way to make the Maple Leaf viable is for VIA to operate it as a local train north of the boarder. A big part of the problem is that Lake Ontario is in the way, thus the train is far less competitive to flying than it normally would be if they could take a direct path.

Would a Via train stopping at all existing Maple Leave stations in Canada make sense? Have the Only stop of the Maple Leaf be in Toronto. Maybe even have a rail shuttle between the 2 Niagara Falls stations that can allow the local train passengers to cross the border still?

 

[drum118]

I meant the existing Maple Leaf service.


Would a Via train stopping at all existing Maple Leave stations in Canada make sense? Have the Only stop of the Maple Leaf be in Toronto. Maybe even have a rail shuttle between the 2 Niagara Falls stations that can allow the local train passengers to cross the border still?

I have seen riders get on and off the Maple Leaf on its way to Toronto at NF and St. Catharines stops and haven't been at other stations when it has arrived there to see what takes place there. Haven't seen what taken place for the NY train at any stations. Clarence is setup on both side of the boarder.

I have taken the train from London UK to Paris and all we have to do was show our passport and tickets. I have seen long line up for the London train in Paris and Brussel. Maybe its different being Canadian than someone who lives in Europe or another part of the world.

I have found it harder to cross into the US even with a NEXUS card and coming back into Canada with either the NEXUS card or without out compared to traveling in Europe. The last time I went to the US, I was pull over in Detroit and had to go inside to be clear to travel in the US and the first time in decades this has happen.

I don't the see why it should be 2 different trains going from Toronto to NYC or Chicago especially using Amtrak trains, but there is an issue using VIA Equipment that is not PCT.

 

[dowlingm]

It's difficult to compare norms in Europe (or at least in Schengen area) to the US-Canada border. The Schengen area is premised on a sharing of border control where larger countries don't have carve out arrangements or asymmetric access to data, at least I understand it. The United States is accustomed to treating itself as exceptional and thus (as we have seen with free trade) might be suspected to agree to any such arrangement in an "open for us, open if we feel like it for you" way. I mean, there are people down there who want to build a wall with up here, and there are days when the carry on down there would tempt one to tell them "go ahead, build it".

 

[lenaitch]

I meant the existing Maple Leaf service.


Would a Via train stopping at all existing Maple Leave stations in Canada make sense? Have the Only stop of the Maple Leaf be in Toronto. Maybe even have a rail shuttle between the 2 Niagara Falls stations that can allow the local train passengers to cross the border still?

As mentioned, running the train as an express between the border and Toronto might not make financial sense for VIA.

It wouldn't matter if it is a train, shuttle, bus or bicycle, the ability to or ease of crossing the border is largely dependent on what the US will allow. I would think if some kind of shuttle was feasible between the two sides of the Falls they would have done it years ago simply for local tourism reasons.

 

[micheal_can]

As mentioned, running the train as an express between the border and Toronto might not make financial sense for VIA.

It wouldn't matter if it is a train, shuttle, bus or bicycle, the ability to or ease of crossing the border is largely dependent on what the US will allow. I would think if some kind of shuttle was feasible between the two sides of the Falls they would have done it years ago simply for local tourism reasons.

I didn't think Via had much say as to what any of the Amtrak trains into Canada did.
It may also be that Via has a finite amount they can spend and this is the best they can do with the funds they have.