AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Why is he taking it to Twitter - shouldn't he be taking it this follow cops instead?
AoD
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)
- Thread starter rp07
- Start date
Why is he taking it to Twitter - shouldn't he be taking it this follow cops instead?
AoD
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Do. Not. Underestimate. Twitter.Why is he taking it to Twitter - shouldn't he be taking it this follow cops instead?
--- Pragmatic Note --- Certainly, it is a double edged sword. Use your neck muscles and turn your head south of the 49th parallel whose president got elected because of Twitter. But there's also lots of good too, coming out of it, Twitter advocacy campaigns has major influence in some cities such as Hamilton. We gained a new protected cycle track in 2015 partially because of Twitter (the wildly successful #YesWeCannon campaign), for example.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
What's it going to do? It isn't like Twitter is already filled with frustrated riders venting over road kills and whatnot. Any bets on said officer keep on tweeting along said lines in any case? Like Kyle?
Also, what's the big deal about it? If it takes a close brush as a cop - who could actually use his powers to charge the driver - to realize the problem, one probably wasn't paying attention to the issue as they should have in the first place.
AoD
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Repeating my edit:
--- Pragmatic Note --- Certainly, it is a double edged sword. Use your neck muscles and turn your head south of the 49th parallel whose president got elected because of Twitter. But there's also lots of good too, coming out of it, Twitter advocacy campaigns has major influence in some cities such as Hamilton. We gained a new protected cycle track in 2015 partially because of Twitter (the wildly successful #YesWeCannon campaign), for example.
--- Pragmatic Note --- Certainly, it is a double edged sword. Use your neck muscles and turn your head south of the 49th parallel whose president got elected because of Twitter. But there's also lots of good too, coming out of it, Twitter advocacy campaigns has major influence in some cities such as Hamilton. We gained a new protected cycle track in 2015 partially because of Twitter (the wildly successful #YesWeCannon campaign), for example.
A Twitter campaign directed at a specific individual or company can be effective. A general "take to Twitter to complain about bad driving"? Not so much.
And Trump was elected for more reasons than just Twitter.
And Trump was elected for more reasons than just Twitter.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Moreover, since you opened the Twitter Pandora Box debate, I will expand further.
Yes, it is a double edged sword.
Firstly, Twitter is sometime petty and puerile, sure. Especially if you logged on, glanced for a week, and deleted the app in disgust. Sure, we've been there. But if you follow certain positive accounts, you begin to realize the power it can do for good too, as well.
Next, it's a media amplifier.
CBC, GlobalTV, TheSpec, TheStar, etc and other campaigns write news articles just because of a twitter tip. It's a bullhorn to the media that's often faster/easier/more effective. If one tweet gets you on television, the Twitter butterfly opened your chaos successfully. Viralness can be easier if you do it successfully -- you need only 140 (now 280) characters.
I'm ready with counterarguments about Twitter effectiveness/ineffectiveness. We've succeeded on some big cycle-related campaigns in Hamilton because of Twitter helping amplify it, so bring on the on-topic "Twitter is useless for bike advocacy" debate!
Yes, it is a double edged sword.
Firstly, Twitter is sometime petty and puerile, sure. Especially if you logged on, glanced for a week, and deleted the app in disgust. Sure, we've been there. But if you follow certain positive accounts, you begin to realize the power it can do for good too, as well.
Next, it's a media amplifier.
CBC, GlobalTV, TheSpec, TheStar, etc and other campaigns write news articles just because of a twitter tip. It's a bullhorn to the media that's often faster/easier/more effective. If one tweet gets you on television, the Twitter butterfly opened your chaos successfully. Viralness can be easier if you do it successfully -- you need only 140 (now 280) characters.
I'm ready with counterarguments about Twitter effectiveness/ineffectiveness. We've succeeded on some big cycle-related campaigns in Hamilton because of Twitter helping amplify it, so bring on the on-topic "Twitter is useless for bike advocacy" debate!
mdrejhon
Senior Member
CHCH reached me on Twitter for a bike-infra-related television interview
Link:
CHCH Inviting Me On Twitter For Interview
Link:
CHCH Television Interview
(Hello Mom! Though as a deafie, I let my spouse Alain Bureau do the speaking)
Result: Petition kept accelerating, and city noticed.
Unamious vote + acceptance of new multiuse trail name
https://twitter.com/KeddyTrail/status/994324834740928512
https://twitter.com/Mattatthespec/status/994340940323180544
https://globalnews.ca/news/4192448/...in-honour-of-late-hamilton-cyclist-jay-keddy/
All 15 of 15 council votes!
For the name of a multiuse trail that removes an underused car lane.
In the previous days leading up to the media publicity occuring -- I was very loud on social media (including Twitter) about my Keddy Access Trail petition and the petition went locally viral getting >1000 in barely 24-48 hours. And it's safe from that recent provincial funding cancellation too (trail fully funded before deadline). Our councillors are now no longer daring/threatening to cancel this trail because of tarnishing the legacy of the name of a kindergarten teacher. And because of now wider public support, thanks to social media amplification. Residents from all parties, even conservatives wrote comments in the about their kids needing a safe ways to travel across the escarpment, including to schools and Mohawk College. It reached city council, and they voted -- unamiously. Even conservative-leaning rural councillors voted Yes on naming this urban trail that takes away a car lane. This put frosting -- made out of hardened concrete -- on top to seal the Keddy Access Trail plan -- massively reducing cancellation risk.
This is far from my only twitter example, I can keep going on....
Convinced yet, Alvin?
So that means Twitter is not useless - it is one darn good butterfly in Chaos Theory... Certainly you need to use many tools in parallel (as Pink Lucy attests) but Never. Underestimate. Twitter.
Discleaimer: My spouse (Alain Bureau) is running for city council in Hamilton Ward 3, we have recently pre-announced. Twitter is an important part of Hamilton municipal elections too, even if not for the reasons most people assume.
Link:
CHCH Inviting Me On Twitter For Interview
Link:
CHCH Television Interview
(Hello Mom! Though as a deafie, I let my spouse Alain Bureau do the speaking)
Result: Petition kept accelerating, and city noticed.
Unamious vote + acceptance of new multiuse trail name
https://twitter.com/KeddyTrail/status/994324834740928512
https://twitter.com/Mattatthespec/status/994340940323180544
https://globalnews.ca/news/4192448/...in-honour-of-late-hamilton-cyclist-jay-keddy/
All 15 of 15 council votes!
For the name of a multiuse trail that removes an underused car lane.
In the previous days leading up to the media publicity occuring -- I was very loud on social media (including Twitter) about my Keddy Access Trail petition and the petition went locally viral getting >1000 in barely 24-48 hours. And it's safe from that recent provincial funding cancellation too (trail fully funded before deadline). Our councillors are now no longer daring/threatening to cancel this trail because of tarnishing the legacy of the name of a kindergarten teacher. And because of now wider public support, thanks to social media amplification. Residents from all parties, even conservatives wrote comments in the about their kids needing a safe ways to travel across the escarpment, including to schools and Mohawk College. It reached city council, and they voted -- unamiously. Even conservative-leaning rural councillors voted Yes on naming this urban trail that takes away a car lane. This put frosting -- made out of hardened concrete -- on top to seal the Keddy Access Trail plan -- massively reducing cancellation risk.
This is far from my only twitter example, I can keep going on....
Convinced yet, Alvin?
So that means Twitter is not useless - it is one darn good butterfly in Chaos Theory... Certainly you need to use many tools in parallel (as Pink Lucy attests) but Never. Underestimate. Twitter.
Discleaimer: My spouse (Alain Bureau) is running for city council in Hamilton Ward 3, we have recently pre-announced. Twitter is an important part of Hamilton municipal elections too, even if not for the reasons most people assume.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
lol...I thought much the same! How hopeless is it? It was late last night when I posted that, so no meat quoted, but if that's his recourse...holy rolly polly...Why is he taking it to Twitter - shouldn't he be taking it this follow cops instead?
AoD
Rather than rail at him, I'm waiting for some comment from the top....(....sound of crickets chirping...)
steveintoronto
Superstar
The lower Humber Bike Path is going to be closed south of the Queensway in the next week or so for about a month for work on the Metrolinx railway bridge crossing the Humber. (Dates are very approximate)
A detour/by-pass is being set up to ostensibly use the 'old' path that is still extant:
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/To...23555502ab4c477!8m2!3d43.653226!4d-79.3831843
To attain it, it's necessary to cross the Queensway bridge which now has much improved painted cycle lanes, but is still very dangerous in spots, one of those spots being the slip road/ramp shown at top to connect the QW EB to the Gardiner EB. The QW EB cycle track goes right across that off-ramp making cyclists easy targets. It *will* go wrong, it's a matter of time.
The obvious move for a cyclist (and for all but the most seasoned, I recommend using the sidewalk right across the bridge) is to take that off-ramp to get down to the green trail top of map:
But there's a huge problem if you follow the law:
That's right, cyclists and pedestrians are banned from using the slip road/off ramp to get to that trail, lower right in this pic.
WTF are they thinking? Now I agree, it's a freakin' crap shoot to cycle down that ramp. I'm a very seasoned and assertive cyclist, but I'd have to be in a pretty bravado state of mind to take the risk doing it. That speed sign means absolutely nothing to most drivers headed down there. It's assumed to be an acceleration lane to get up to Gardiner speeds.
So why not assign half the sidewalk to being a cycle lane? It's stated that pedestrians are banned anyway!
I stifle the urge to post obscenities in the general direction of Toronto Roads...
Here's an earlier Street View before repaving and newer lane marking:
I have actually cycled that stretch, probably a couple of times. I'd have to be very hard-pressed to do it again. That cyclists shown is a sitting duck, and I can tell they're oblivious to anything coming up behind them. And unfortunately, the City is *encouraging* them putting themselves in such incredible danger.
It's so fffing obvious to entice them down the ramp, do so even on the sidewalk with markings indicating that if necessary, to attain the cycle path at the bottom of the ramp instead of banning it. That 'sidewalk' can be shared use, as is done in many other parts of the city.
A detour/by-pass is being set up to ostensibly use the 'old' path that is still extant:
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/To...23555502ab4c477!8m2!3d43.653226!4d-79.3831843
To attain it, it's necessary to cross the Queensway bridge which now has much improved painted cycle lanes, but is still very dangerous in spots, one of those spots being the slip road/ramp shown at top to connect the QW EB to the Gardiner EB. The QW EB cycle track goes right across that off-ramp making cyclists easy targets. It *will* go wrong, it's a matter of time.
The obvious move for a cyclist (and for all but the most seasoned, I recommend using the sidewalk right across the bridge) is to take that off-ramp to get down to the green trail top of map:
But there's a huge problem if you follow the law:
That's right, cyclists and pedestrians are banned from using the slip road/off ramp to get to that trail, lower right in this pic.
WTF are they thinking? Now I agree, it's a freakin' crap shoot to cycle down that ramp. I'm a very seasoned and assertive cyclist, but I'd have to be in a pretty bravado state of mind to take the risk doing it. That speed sign means absolutely nothing to most drivers headed down there. It's assumed to be an acceleration lane to get up to Gardiner speeds.
So why not assign half the sidewalk to being a cycle lane? It's stated that pedestrians are banned anyway!
I stifle the urge to post obscenities in the general direction of Toronto Roads...
Here's an earlier Street View before repaving and newer lane marking:
I have actually cycled that stretch, probably a couple of times. I'd have to be very hard-pressed to do it again. That cyclists shown is a sitting duck, and I can tell they're oblivious to anything coming up behind them. And unfortunately, the City is *encouraging* them putting themselves in such incredible danger.
It's so fffing obvious to entice them down the ramp, do so even on the sidewalk with markings indicating that if necessary, to attain the cycle path at the bottom of the ramp instead of banning it. That 'sidewalk' can be shared use, as is done in many other parts of the city.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
https://www.blogto.com/tech/2018/08/u-of-t-eye-tracking-study-drivers-toronto/
[...]
The sample size was small, to be certain, but the results of the study suggest that — as many in the city have noted — changes to traffic infrastructure are needed to improve traffic safety.
"I don't think it’s an education issue," said U of T's Birsen Donmez, who supervised the research and is Canada Research Chair in Human Factors and Transportation.
"When you look at the bike lanes in the city – they appear over here, but disappear there – the more unpredictable the road rules are, the more challenging it is."
She noted that drivers should be careful to make frequent over-the-shoulder checks until infrastructure can catch up with how citizens use our roads today.
“The takeaway for pedestrians and cyclists: Drivers aren't seeing you. Not necessarily because they're bad drivers, but that their attention is too divided," she said.
"When crossing a street, your assumption should be that the car doesn't see you."
No fugging kidding. It's been bog obvious to some of us for decades. Try explaining that to those cyclists, the majority of whom polled think "Bloor cycle lanes are very safe".
Anything but...
Edit to Add: And I swear, some idiot cyclist ringing their bell behind me in dangerous spots where I slow down (I'm not bragging, I'm a very fast cyclist on open roads) is going to have to visit a doctor to get it removed from private areas. If I'm in danger, the last thing I need is some oblivious jerk-off distracting me.
Just because idiot cyclists are unaware of the marked dangers on the road, cycle lane or otherwise doesn't mean that they have the right to ding ding, fugging ding when the cyclist in front needs to slow for the abstract cause of 'safety'.
And almost inevitably, it's the worst cyclists that do the incessant ding-a-ling. If you think I'm going too slow, then freakin' pass me. YOU take the door prize. Ha ha...
You wouldn't do this in a car, why do you think it's right to do on a bike? Sorry, it's a question based on logic...
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Neutrino
Senior Member
Ran 24 km today, part of it on the MGT. Many cyclists and many dinging their bells as they overtake. I was reminded of @steveintoronto's rage
Avenue
Active Member
Toronto has so few places dedicated to leisure and tourists for a city of its size so naturally MGT is overflooded. I never go there for any purpose if I can avoid it.
Northern Light
Superstar
I expect they couldn't approve it as shared use path, due to width, and its current classification as a sidewalk. (Toronto guidelines requires 2m of exclusive unobstructed pedestrian access (let's not start on how that's often not the case, never mind all the roads without sidewalks, LOL) and the bike path minimum and mixed trail minimums both read as 3m, with 4m preferred.
To be clear, I'm speculating on the thought process of Transportation. But if I'm right, they are being both officious and impractical.
What stands out to me; is that they rebuilt the parapet walls in Steve's photos. While I don't know the specific engineering of this bit, I'd be shocked if there wasn't room in the structural load to canteliver a 2m extension off to one side, making it large enough for a robust mixed used trail, with room to spare t put up a barrier between the sidewalk/trail and traffic.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Must not forget that we still have people, politicians, and bureaucrats who still think that bicycles are recreational, and not a means of transportation.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Make no mistake, bells, like horns, have a very valuable use: *Alert!*...but using it for anything less is an annoyance or worse. It puts other cyclists and pedestrians on edge, as it's meant to do exactly that for *emergencies*...or if need be, the smallest of tingles for the purpose of being gracious...and that's not "get out of my way because I'm entitled".Ran 24 km today, part of it on the MGT. Many cyclists and many dinging their bells as they overtake. I was reminded of @steveintoronto's rage
Just in from a medium distance jaunt now, over 50 km, under 100 km, bit of a calamity due to cycling partner's mechanical problems, and it ended up with discovering his frame is fractured. Guess who always brings a road tool kit and had to do the dirty work. Long story short, hopefully he invests in a better one. (Easy for me to say, I ride a modified racing classic) A classic is always worth reinvesting in. Consumer items aren't.
It probably got fractured doing the 'through the woods' trail I love taking as a shortcut (and to avoid traffic) between Limestone Rd and Side Rd 3:
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ke...d75ac4d5609c57!8m2!3d43.5079351!4d-79.9401497
Whatever, we were discussing the "ding-a-lings" and the absolutely flagrant disregard for pedestrians going through crosswalks. And some motorists are just as bad. They don't even follow the old HTA regs of split road direction wait for peds to reach sidewalk, let alone the new regs that require stopping until *any* sidewalk or island is reached.
There's a number of us older cyclists becoming very vocal now with other cyclists. They know when they're being called out and why, and it's only the rare and brave that respond...best I leave it at that for now.
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