G-20 Summit in Toronto

[Admiral Beez]

I honestly can't believe this is still being debated. It's quite funny really. I had almost forgotten the G20 was here until I keep seeing this thread poke its head. If there ever was a lame conspiracy theory, this is definitely one of them. At least 9/11 ones are a little more entertaining. Or the faked moon landings. This one is just a mess.

I was just about the say the same thing. Is this really top of anyone's mind any more?

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I was just about the say the same thing. Is this really top of anyone's mind any more?

I could care less about the Harper Government, the police and the protesters. There are better things to discuss than this!

 

[Fresh Start]

I could care less about the Harper Government, the police and the protesters. There are better things to discuss than this!

The irony of which is that AB resurrected a dead thread to state that.

I think that most people have moved on, and which is why I feel that a public inquiry is just for optics, throwing good money after bad. Do I think any cops will be reprimanded for excessive force or further details on the 5 metre rule, alledged sexual harassment, and whatever the heck happened at Queen/Spadina the Sunday afternoon will be given a satisfactory resolution? Hell no.

 

[khris]

What happened here in Toronto during the summit should be of concern to all Canadians. It should never be allowed to happen again. I'm not talking about the G20, I'm talking about the actions of our police, and the outright violation of human rights in Canada. I didn't think I'd ever see what happened actually ever happen in this country.
So should it be on the "top" of our minds? I don't know, but it shouldn't be left to just be forgotten about either.

 

[tkip]

What I think should be a concern for people here is the actions of so many involved perhaps including perhaps the police. People are too focused on the cops and government and completely ignoring the bad behaviour of so many people on the streets during the protest. Why did they get a free past on questionable behaviour?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

What I think should be a concern for people here is the actions of so many involved perhaps including perhaps the police. People are too focused on the cops and government and completely ignoring the bad behaviour of so many people on the streets during the protest. Why did they get a free past on questionable behaviour?

Because it's easier and "cooler" to question authority. Look lets do the investigation and see if police crossed a line but let's not give the thugs who created this mess a free pass.

 

[tkip]

Because it's easier and "cooler" to question authority. Look lets do the investigation and see if police crossed a line but let's not give the thugs who created this mess a free pass.

I think you speak the truth... I know we have to told authority and police to a higher standard but it seems everyone was willing to just forget what all those idiots did over the weekend.

 

[Dan416]

I don't think anyone's forgotten about the thugs that came out in full force that weekend. We'd rather just not be reminded that such thuggery exists in our society.

 

[shilly]

You call people idiots who choose to peacefully protest and are held in the elements for hours while police refuse to allow people to leave. You call them all thugs, some of whom were protesting the governments abuse of public funds, secrecy and pure unabashed distaste for the City. Young Canadians and in particular Young Torontonians now have a new reason to never vote Conservative. Your ideas and rhetoric only further that thought.

The mayor and the City never wanted the meeting to take place at the metro convention centre. The ideal location was Exhibition place, but the creature comforts of the delegates plus inviting other nations increased the number of hotel rooms needed during the summit. That is why the convention centre was chosen...against the wishes of our elected representatives.

I'm not defending the black bloc tactics used by some protesters, but I was there. I was shot at, chased, had tear gas burns and had my rights to peacefully protest kicked away like a piece of litter. Perhaps sitting at home watching CP24 is your way of defending democracy, but you don't give a damn about the charter.

I'm a young Canadian. I'll fight for that charter even if you can't or won't.

 

[Redroom Studios]

I would never vote Conservative either, but I have virtually no issues with police tactics over that weekend. Also, I fail to see how moving the venue a couple of kilometres west would change anything? The protest route still would have been through downtown Toronto and the targets of violence would still have been (mainly) banks and corporate business. If anything, the venue should have been in a remote area or on an island... I still find people complaining about infringements on their Charter Rights to be laughable.

 

[tkip]

I don't think people are calling the people participating in the protests, especially the ones being peaceful as being idiots. I was referring to those that just acted like idiots in general. Some protestors and a ton of bystanders.

 

[shilly]

Also, I fail to see how moving the venue a couple of kilometres west would change anything? The protest route still would have been through downtown Toronto and the targets of violence would still have been (mainly) banks and corporate business. QUOTE]

Yeah those large fences and isolated area would make for a bad place to keep people out of. They could have kept every single police officer in the city inside that fence and if someone got in, arrest them. That's fair. However, forcing hundreds of thousands of of people to change their plans and leave their OWN city for Harper and the world leaders is bad publicity and stupid.

The silent majority that Dalton McGunity was referring to is people like you, and I have no problem with how you feel. You are entitled to speak your mind and I'd defend your right to it. Yes, the banks were the usual target and they prepared for it by having reinforced glass windows installed. I witnessed the windows withstand golf balls, hits with a hammer and they didn't crack. Smart move by the banks.

However, I also saw the burning police car at King and Bay and you know what? It didn't explode. There were perhaps a hundred or so police officers to the west, south and east towards Victoria Street. Why didn't they come in and defend their property? It was planted to incite the violence that would defend the Governments $1 Billion expenditure on security, and perhaps change the way Canada views Toronto in a more negative light.

If anything, the venue should have been in a remote area or on an island... I still find people complaining about infringements on their Charter Rights to be laughable.

You laugh at people who are forced to provide identification for walking through the downtown core on a friday afternoon in late July. You laugh when people who refuse or perhaps naively forget to bring their ID and are detained. That my friend, is the beginning of the slippery slope to your rights being slowly eroded.

 

[Peepers]

but let's not give the thugs who created this mess a free pass.

The thugs WERE given a free pass BY THE POLICE who stood idly and watched as scores of vandals trashed businesses.

Here is just some of the irrefutable video evidence:

POLICE RETREATING along Queen just ahead of vandals. No attempt made to stop and arrest the criminals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kKg2jtjt0Y

POLICE IN RIOT GEAR stand by idly and watch as vandals smash windows just one block away at Yonge and College! They watch crimes being committed and did NOTHING:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeU8ObPrI3I&feature=PlayList&p=35BBB31A22EF4617&index=32&playnext=2

POLICE IN RIOT GEAR march up an empty alley beside Toronto Hydro just one block from the mayhem at Yonge & Carlton. Again no attempt to intervene in the crimes taking place just a block away!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlqHTUz3C9g&feature=PlayList&p=35BBB31A22EF4617&index=33&playnext=3

In an interview with the G&M the day after the riots Blair was asked point blank if an order had been given to "stand-down". Blair's' emphatic response was "absolutely not!"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-no-apologies-for-g20-tactics/article1621788/

These videos prove Bill Blair wrong!

An order to stand-down HAD to have been given since the Police officers shown on the videos would never decide on their own to stand by and do nothing since they know that they would face discipline for neglect of duty. They were acting on orders!

Bill Blair almost certainly gave or approved the order to stand down. At the very least he had to be aware of its existence the day after. For Bill Blair to publicly state that no order was given to stand down appears to be a lie for which he should be charged with breach of trust.

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[Darwinkgo]

Maybe you're just interpreting stand down differently - they didn't leave those locations where they were to retreat back to the fence - that is how I would interpret stand down. And really, unless they had overwhelming numbers, should police wade into a riot and start arresting? It wouldn't take long before you would have to start shooting people because you just don't have enough force to act safely, and every person you detain would take at least 2 officers, likely 3 off the front line. It just likely wasn't safe.

 

[Peepers]

Maybe you're just interpreting stand down differently - they didn't leave those locations where they were to retreat back to the fence - that is how I would interpret stand down. And really, unless they had overwhelming numbers, should police wade into a riot and start arresting? It wouldn't take long before you would have to start shooting people because you just don't have enough force to act safely, and every person you detain would take at least 2 officers, likely 3 off the front line. It just likely wasn't safe.

I think stand down is the correct term - but just so I am clear - it is obvious to me that the police were given an order not to engage the vandals. As for the strength of the police force there can be no doubt that they had overwhelming numbers. Bear in mind that when you watch the videos you are only seeing a small fraction of the police force. They had at all times hundreds of riot ready cops sitting in buses and vans just ready to pounce. I saw this first hand during the Allen Gardens protest which took place in my neighborhood. In addition to the hundreds of police in and around the park there were over a hundred more cops sitting in Greyhound buses and mini-vans parked along Homewood avenue. Also lets not forget that the actual number of people committing acts of vandalism was relatively small compared to the size of the police force and the size of the demonstration in general.

Had the police engaged the vandals no doubt it would have got very messy and people could have got seriously hurt but that is not a reason to stand by and do nothing. Stopping criminals in their track always involves risk to both the criminals and the cops. That is what law enforcement is all about.

I do not see any reasonable explanation for the failure of the police to do their job on that Saturday.