Ford Wants NFL Team For Toronto

[jn_12]

The strange rumor I heard was that........SD moves to LA (yes owned by AEG)........SD attracts a different team....the Bills (allowing the Wilsons to do estate planning pre-Ralph's death)......freeing up his market/region for a weak sister (Jaguars) to move to Toronto.....it was all explained to me in some detail that made some sense but I do not know how real it all is.....but it ends up leaving NY State without a pro football team!

PS the whole "wait until Ralph dies thing makes no sense.....why not do some estate planning and avoid incoming estate/death taxes?

His kids/family don't want the team and they don't like Buffalo for some reason. Jim Kelly has claimed that he has a group ready to buy the team when it goes up for auction (apparently the group includes Trump) but I don't know how sure people are of Kelly. My Dad is a Buffalonian and has been a season ticket holder for 30 years and he seems to think the Bills will be gone when Ralph dies.

 

[Mulder]

I think an NFL team can exist here. There's reasons why the NFL might not come here, but it certainly can exist, and it can co-exist with the CFL. People who are fans of the CFL aren't fans because they like football. They are fans because they like the Argos and they like the CFL. That won't change with the NFL in town. There would also be an opportunity for the teams to cross-promote and form a partnership.

I totally disagree with this statement, but I may misinterpreting it. I've found that more fans/season tickets holders of the Argo's and other CFL teams are fans of football in general, and follow it much more closely on levels that just 'NFL' fans do. Either it be NFL, CFL, NCAA, or CIS. CFL fans can tell you the differences between both games, while the average Canadian NFL fan who doesn't like the CFL can only tell you the basics (if that)

I've also found that people who don't like the CFL have no real reason for not liking it. I'll quote one guy I talked to.

"I'm a pretty proud Canadian, but the CFL is not one thing I'm proud about"
Why I ask?
"Well, 6 of the 7 teams make the playoffs."


There's 8 teams, btw and that's just being ignorant

All this talk of downsview has me wondering....isn't it a Park? Didn't the feds pass legislation making it a park?....can you just build a stadium in a park?

It is, this is why plans for the "Toronto Legacy" hockey team, who had plans for a 30,000 seat arena, with concept drawings and location on Downsview park land, were taken down from the webpage.

Actually Ottawa is the biggest city in the OHL. Doesn't change how bad the attendance is in the GTA.......come to think of it.....if you add the populations of Missauga and Brampton together ...Peel is the biggest municipality in th OHL ......if you add the two teams' average attendances from last season it is probably about half of London's

Doesn't change the fact that the st. mikes were forced out of Toronto, had shit attendence, and no one cared. Even when st. Mikes majors wanted to move to MLG, MLSE said no. Marlies get the same attention.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I totally disagree with this statement, but I may misinterpreting it. I've found that more fans/season tickets holders of the Argo's and other CFL teams are fans of football in general, and follow it much more closely on levels that just 'NFL' fans do. Either it be NFL, CFL, NCAA, or CIS. CFL fans can tell you the differences between both games, while the average Canadian NFL fan who doesn't like the CFL can only tell you the basics (if that)

I've also found that people who don't like the CFL have no real reason for not liking it. I'll quote one guy I talked to.

"I'm a pretty proud Canadian, but the CFL is not one thing I'm proud about"
Why I ask?
"Well, 6 of the 7 teams make the playoffs."


There's 8 teams, btw and that's just being ignorant



It is, this is why plans for the "Toronto Legacy" hockey team, who had plans for a 30,000 seat arena, with concept drawings and location on Downsview park land, were taken down from the webpage.




Doesn't change the fact that the st. mikes were forced out of Toronto, had shit attendence, and no one cared. Even when st. Mikes majors wanted to move to MLG, MLSE said no. Marlies get the same attention.

Why , are they supposed to explain why they don't like it? Maybe its not their preference. Yes their is eight teams, soon to be 9 again. But 6/8 team do make the playoffs. Thats 75% of the league. Thats not ignorance thats the truth. But its not necessairily bad thing IMO. More teams = more revenue.

 

[Mulder]

Why , are they supposed to explain why they don't like it? Maybe its not their preference. Yes their is eight teams, soon to be 9 again. But 6/8 team do make the playoffs. Thats 75% of the league. Thats not ignorance thats the truth.

I didn't start said converation, and I usually don't, I go around sporting Argos gear all the time.

I guess the Leafs stanley cups wins don't count then, because the last time they won, there was only 6 teams. It's a very ignorant way of "not liking" a league.

As for More teams, I the goal of the CFL right now is getting Ottawa off the ground. As soon as shovels start on the stadium there you'll see more movement in either Halifax/Moncton or Quebec City. The City of Halifax just voted to put a proposal for a Fifa 2015 Woman's World Cup stadium. Which the GTA (Ironicly) cannot host any games due to a non-compete with the Pan-Am Games. (At least what I heard)

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I didn't start said converation, and I usually don't, I go around sporting Argos gear all the time.

I guess the Leafs stanley cups wins don't count then, because the last time they won, there was only 6 teams. It's a very ignorant way of "not liking" a league.

As for More teams, I the goal of the CFL right now is getting Ottawa off the ground. As soon as shovels start on the stadium there you'll see more movement in either Halifax/Moncton or Quebec City. The City of Halifax just voted to put a proposal for a Fifa 2015 Woman's World Cup stadium. Which the GTA (Ironicly) cannot host any games due to a non-compete with the Pan-Am Games. (At least what I heard)

I don't disagree, I just thought you were saying six teams don't make the playoffs. I personally don't have anything against the CFL.

Did you hear the TiCats might move to Ottawa?
its was just posted on thespec.com

 

[FAC33]

His kids/family don't want the team and they don't like Buffalo for some reason. Jim Kelly has claimed that he has a group ready to buy the team when it goes up for auction (apparently the group includes Trump) but I don't know how sure people are of Kelly. My Dad is a Buffalonian and has been a season ticket holder for 30 years and he seems to think the Bills will be gone when Ralph dies.

I can confirm that this seems to be the common wisdom amongst Buffalonians I've met.

 

[jn_12]

Those that 'think' the CFL can co exists are SOO out of touch with the game of football, the economics of the NFL, and the understanding of how the league is fed.

The Argos will become exinct overnight, if you think they can co-exist with the notoriety and an NFL team, you're being completely delusional.
Then, it will be Ottawa, and eventually Ticats will be gone
Do you think CFL can survive without Ontario?

Do you think higihschools and the CIS will start playing 3 down football, smaller fields? If that's the case, where does the CFL stand in terms of recruits and grass roots understanding?

The two games are very different.
The NFL is great, not because it's simply pro-sports, but because it's well marketed, a cultural phenomenom, and limited in its product availability.
It's however a a terrible idea for Toronto, the CFL, and canadian grass roots culture in general.

Anyone that has been involved with football beyond a 'played highschool' can tell you that the NFL in Toronto will kill the CFL, and greatly effect the game of 4 down football in Ontario, and perhaps eventually, the rest of the country. Whether you like it or not, this is ultimately the result. Anyone selling otherwise does not know what they are talking about, or just outright misleading.

The NFL and the CFL are business partners. The NFL doesn't want to kill the CFL. It can't afford it and it has gone to lengths before to keep it afloat. The CFL provides them with and develops players and provides an entire country where football is at least in the national consciousness. Why would the NFL want the popularity of the sport to drop in the sport's second biggest market? As I said, the NFL has already worked to keep the CFL afloat. In the late 90s it started providing financial help when the CFL's US expansion failed. This financial agreement ended in 2008 when the CFL paid back its debts. If the NFL wasn't concerned about the CFL's existance, why would they have bothered helping keep it up and running?

The fact is, an NFL team in Toronto would work in partnership with the Argos and the CFL. You could set up all sorts of business linkages between the two, and given the good relationship between the two leagues, a team in Toronto could provide CFL teams with a bit of an economic windfall.

Furthermore, don't you think the cultural pervasiveness of the NFL would have already infiltrated the sport at the developmental level? Leagues in Niagara aren't clamouring to change the rules to 4 downs despite being in much closer proximity to the NFL's Bills than any CFL team. Hamilton isn't even on the radar in Niagara, but you can hear Bills ads all the time since most people listen to American radio down there. If the sport is such a cultural phenomenon, you would think that that narrow river seperating the two countries would have had some trouble keeping the 4-down movement at bay yet the leagues in Niagara play 3 down football.

I totally disagree with this statement, but I may misinterpreting it. I've found that more fans/season tickets holders of the Argo's and other CFL teams are fans of football in general, and follow it much more closely on levels that just 'NFL' fans do. Either it be NFL, CFL, NCAA, or CIS. CFL fans can tell you the differences between both games, while the average Canadian NFL fan who doesn't like the CFL can only tell you the basics (if that)

I've also found that people who don't like the CFL have no real reason for not liking it. I'll quote one guy I talked to.

"I'm a pretty proud Canadian, but the CFL is not one thing I'm proud about"
Why I ask?
"Well, 6 of the 7 teams make the playoffs."


There's 8 teams, btw and that's just being ignorant

I guess what I meant was that Argos/CFL fans don't just go to games because they like the sport and that's the only place the can access it. I agree with your assessment, but I think we come to the same conclusion: People who support the CFL will continue to do so. My point was that people don't just go to Argos games to get their football fix (at least in my experience). They go because they enjoy the team or the CFL and would continue to enjoy it if an NFL team was here.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Did Rob Ford attend NFL games when he was just a councilor on city council and not attending meetings? Now that he is mayor, what will he do?

 

[TOareaFan]

Doesn't change the fact that the st. mikes were forced out of Toronto, had shit attendence, and no one cared. Even when st. Mikes majors wanted to move to MLG, MLSE said no. Marlies get the same attention.

St. Mike's weren't "forced" out.....the fact is that when Eugene Melnyk purchased the team it was always with the intent of finding/building a new place to play. Even though the old barn has a "stated" capacity of around 1,600 it actually only held around 1,100 or so and you can lose a lot of money running an OHL team if the most you can draw is 1,100 - 1,600 (pick anywhere in that range cause you need 2,500 - 2,700 to break even....got that directly from one of the league governors).

They looked at building new, they looked at renovating Varsity arena and, yes, they looked at buying MLG....the latter being the most likely but they were not willing to agree to not hold other events (concerts, circuses, Globetrotters, etc) and MLSE were insistent on that being part of any deal.

So Mr. Melnyk bought Mississauga Ice Dogs and, for 1 year, owned both teams and had agreed with the league to sell one of them (they don't like the optics of one guy owning more than one team). Eventually selling the Dogs to a group that moved them to St. Catherines.

Attendance was awful for St. Mikes (worse, likely, than even Brampton and Mississauga....so we are saying the same thing there) but that is not why they moved.....if Mr. Melnyk had been able to do an arena deal within the city, they would still be Toronto St. Michael's Majors.....and yes (another point of agreement) no one seemed to notice them leaving.

Toronto, really, is a bad market for hockey......great for the Toronto Maple Leafs (and I would imagine Team Canada) games.....but awful for any other form of hockey.....and in this case, "Toronto" extends beyond the borders of the city itself.

 

[GenerationW]

It strikes me that most of the people saying the CFL and the Argos will die, are the ones that don't get the CFL or the Argos. They are the ones that always try and compare the two leagues, as though American-style hype and marketing is the only way a league can exist. Nor do they seem to understand the support for teams in markets outside of the GTA.

The "problem" is that Toronto is the media and advertising centre of Canada, and while the CFL could survive, there is no guarantee the CFL would survive in its current form with an NFL team in Toronto. That kind of uncertainty usually doesn't lead to increased stability.

The NFL and the CFL are business partners. The NFL doesn't want to kill the CFL. It can't afford it and it has gone to lengths before to keep it afloat. The CFL provides them with and develops players and provides an entire country where football is at least in the national consciousness. Why would the NFL want the popularity of the sport to drop in the sport's second biggest market? As I said, the NFL has already worked to keep the CFL afloat. In the late 90s it started providing financial help when the CFL's US expansion failed. This financial agreement ended in 2008 when the CFL paid back its debts. If the NFL wasn't concerned about the CFL's existance, why would they have bothered helping keep it up and running?

I think the main reason the NFL helped the CFL was for anti-trust reasons. The NFL has wanted (but failed) to obtain a Congressional anti-trust exemption for decades. But as long as the CFL is around, in any potential court case the NFL can point to the existence of another league that players have the option of playing in.

Did Rob Ford attend NFL games when he was just a councilor on city council and not attending meetings? Now that he is mayor, what will he do?

Are council meetings ever scheduled on Sundays?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The "problem" is that Toronto is the media and advertising centre of Canada, and while the CFL could survive, there is no guarantee the CFL would survive in its current form with an NFL team in Toronto. That kind of uncertainty usually doesn't lead to increased stability.

I think the main reason the NFL helped the CFL was for anti-trust reasons. The NFL has wanted (but failed) to obtain a Congressional anti-trust exemption for decades. But as long as the CFL is around, in any potential court case the NFL can point to the existence of another league that players have the option of playing in.

Are council meetings ever scheduled on Sundays?

That is true. TSN is less likely to sign a TV contract without the Argos or TiCats.

 

[jn_12]

That is true. TSN is less likely to sign a TV contract without the Argos or TiCats.

I have it on excellent authority that this is not true. TSN would acquire it to make sure Sportsnet or CBC didn't.

 

[Eug]

I generally don't watch football, but the few times I do, I prefer the CFL to the NFL, probably partially because I grew up in Regina where EVERYONE watches the Roughriders, and I prefer the Canadian rules anyway.

That said, I'm don't quite understand why people here are so adamant the NFL shouldn't come here. As far as I'm concerned, if the NFL felt it can succeed here, they should be allowed to try. I know several people who would be overjoyed to be able to watch a NFL team from within the stadium in Canada on a regular basis. In any case I'd MUCH rather see the NFL succeed here than UFC, and we already know what's happening with the latter.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I have it on excellent authority that this is not true. TSN would acquire it to make sure Sportsnet or CBC didn't.

Really? I don't doubt you but I have heard in the past TSN had some kind of a clause to guarantee the Argos and TiCats. I guess I am wrong though.

 

[adma]

Who needs NFL?