Ford Wants NFL Team For Toronto

[GenerationW]

Hahaha It will happen.......Money talks, BS walks, and it sure wont be a dream.

I'll bet you $100 it won't happen, and I'll even give you 2013 + five years (i.e. by 2018).

 

[nfitz]

Show me where and how Toronto will build a 60,000 seat stadium, and I'll start going along with your dreams.

That's why the NFL never plays games in Toronto, because we don't have a 60,000 seat stadium.

Oh wait ... hang on, perhaps one could play in a 50,000 seat stadium instead and add 20% to the ticket prices? Quick, someone tell the NFL, and we might start seeing the occasional game here!

 

[TOareaFan]

That's why the NFL never plays games in Toronto, because we don't have a 60,000 seat stadium.

Oh wait ... hang on, perhaps one could play in a 50,000 seat stadium instead and add 20% to the ticket prices? Quick, someone tell the NFL, and we might start seeing the occasional game here!

Your right in one sense......the NFL (any league) is foolish to focus on capacity instead of revenue generation. The Bills earn about 1.5 - 2X (from what I heard) on the games in Toronto relative to what they earn on any match at the Ralph.

That said, it is highly unlikely that Toronto (or any market) could sustain for a full season the sort of average ticket prices that are imposed to be able to pay the Bills that money from that small 52k stadium we have.

Long term, I think the number is somewhere between 70k and 75k of seats that Toronto would need in a new stadium if it were for the NFL.....I just don't know that it has to be in an $1B (ish) dome configuration....I also don't know who would own it now that the 3 likely suspects have (I believe) rendered themselves outside of NFL ownership rules by partnering together and owning teams in (multiple) other leagues.

 

[jn_12]

I still don't see it to be honest. First, there isn't a potential owner. Companies aren't allowed to own NFL teams, so something like Rogers or Bell taking over like we saw with the Leafs simply cannot happen. Sure the Rogers family could buy the team but apparently the dream died with Ted. Beyond that there isn't anyone on the radar who would have interest who is rich enough to get a team and build a stadium without significant financial assistance for a stadium (I disagree with the idea that Skydome is a viable solution. 52k just isn't enough.). There are still a number of other hurdles, such as TV revenues (which is a very big deal) which need to be factored in too.

And the NFL won't be expanding anytime soon. They have enough troubled franchises to deal with.

 

[nfitz]

I just don't see how one could ever justify a new larger stadium for a sport where there'd only be 8 or 9 games a year, when you can simply increase ticket prices by 50% and use an existing facility. I expect they'd sell in Toronto - I'd think there'd be far more interest in a local team, than two foreign teams, and tickets would be in more demand.

If we were further south, perhaps a new stadium would make sense ... but look at when the regular season runs for NFL. mid-September into early January. Would you prefer to be in a 80,000 seat uncovered stadium, or a 55,000 covered, heated, stadium.

 

[jn_12]

I just don't see how one could ever justify a new larger stadium for a sport where there'd only be 8 or 9 games a year, when you can simply increase ticket prices by 50% and use an existing facility. I expect they'd sell in Toronto - I'd think there'd be far more interest in a local team, than two foreign teams, and tickets would be in more demand.

If we were further south, perhaps a new stadium would make sense ... but look at when the regular season runs for NFL. mid-September into early January. Would you prefer to be in a 80,000 seat uncovered stadium, or a 55,000 covered, heated, stadium.

I just don't think it's as easy as increasing ticket prices to make up for the lost revenue. The average ticket price in the nfl is $76. Let's say you add 50% to that, you're looking at $114 which would almost put them at the top of the league (behing the Patriots). Multiply that amount by 54,000 seats and by 8 games and you get just under $50million. TV contracts currently give each team $118million, so you're looking at $168million in revenue. We know that the Green Bay Packers had an annual operating cost of $160million last year. So you're looking at a profit margin of around $8million for a Toronto team. Considering you're talking about a minimum billion dollar investment to get a team here, that type of profit isn't all that great, especially when you consider you've maxed out the ticket revenue you can earn since you're already charging the most expensive ticket in the league and you're in a market where the loonie can be the difference between making a profit and losing money. Additionally, we don't know how a Toronto team would impact the US tv contracts and whether Toronto would reap the same benefits as the US based teams.

Of course, it's not that simple, and there are other ways to generate bits of revenue, but equally, there may be other costs involved as well. I just don't think it's a smart business move to put a team in the Dome long term. There just isn't enough incentive for an owner to do it and there's a lot of risk there.

 

[ticky]

That's why the NFL never plays games in Toronto, because we don't have a 60,000 seat stadium.

Oh wait ... hang on, perhaps one could play in a 50,000 seat stadium instead and add 20% to the ticket prices? Quick, someone tell the NFL, and we might start seeing the occasional game here!

The Skydome is a terrible baseball stadium, and an even worse football stadium.

 

[nfitz]

The Skydome is a terrible baseball stadium, and an even worse football stadium.

I fail to see why Baseball and Football, who pushed for the damn stadium in the first place, agreed to the design then. That stadium cost us taxpayers a fortune, so they are going to have to live with it for another few decades yet. It's not like that it was a repurposed athletic stadium like the Big O.

 

[Tulse]

I fail to see why Baseball and Football, who pushed for the damn stadium in the first place, agreed to the design then.

All multipurpose stadiums are compromises, and much worse than purpose-built stadiums. Given that no one was going to build two separate covered stadiums, the Skydome was the best that could be hoped for -- it was a sub-optimal solution, but the only one that was practical.

 

[jn_12]

And I don't think it's all that bad for either sport (though the only football game I've seen there was a Bills game). I've been in the Dome when it's sold out and it's a pretty great atmosphere. The problem is when there's 20,000 people in there.

One thing I'd like to see them do is remove the windows restaurant and convert it into a porch with barbecues where people can stand and watch the game from the outfield. It would add a bit of life to the outfield and make it seem less sterile with the glass removed.

 

[TOareaFan]

I just don't think it's as easy as increasing ticket prices to make up for the lost revenue. The average ticket price in the nfl is $76. Let's say you add 50% to that, you're looking at $114 which would almost put them at the top of the league (behing the Patriots). Multiply that amount by 54,000 seats and by 8 games and you get just under $50million. TV contracts currently give each team $118million, so you're looking at $168million in revenue. We know that the Green Bay Packers had an annual operating cost of $160million last year. So you're looking at a profit margin of around $8million for a Toronto team. Considering you're talking about a minimum billion dollar investment to get a team here, that type of profit isn't all that great, especially when you consider you've maxed out the ticket revenue you can earn since you're already charging the most expensive ticket in the league and you're in a market where the loonie can be the difference between making a profit and losing money. Additionally, we don't know how a Toronto team would impact the US tv contracts and whether Toronto would reap the same benefits as the US based teams.

Of course, it's not that simple, and there are other ways to generate bits of revenue, but equally, there may be other costs involved as well. I just don't think it's a smart business move to put a team in the Dome long term. There just isn't enough incentive for an owner to do it and there's a lot of risk there.

confused.....wouldn't it only be a billion dollar investment if you did build a new stadium? Surely it would not be a billion dollars to either get an expansion team or purchase and move an existing team?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

for nfitz

We already have an indoor large stadium: skydome

And new NFL stadium in Downsview or Scarborough would cost only about 800 mil (Indianapolis built theirs for 750 mil) and 8 + rev to the owner would be justifiable because we already have two multipurpose stadiums. This new one would not be the main satdium. Skydome still is.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Your right in one sense......the NFL (any league) is foolish to focus on capacity instead of revenue generation. The Bills earn about 1.5 - 2X (from what I heard) on the games in Toronto relative to what they earn on any match at the Ralph.

That said, it is highly unlikely that Toronto (or any market) could sustain for a full season the sort of average ticket prices that are imposed to be able to pay the Bills that money from that small 52k stadium we have.

Long term, I think the number is somewhere between 70k and 75k of seats that Toronto would need in a new stadium if it were for the NFL.....I just don't know that it has to be in an $1B (ish) dome configuration....I also don't know who would own it now that the 3 likely suspects have (I believe) rendered themselves outside of NFL ownership rules by partnering together and owning teams in (multiple) other leagues.

If you build the stadium with a roof, then yes 1 Billion plus. But without a roof the cost goes down 300-400 million. For example the new minnesota stadium with a roof is 1.1 billion, but with out is about 750 million or 700 million.

And TV rights. Put them CTV with the other NFL games. Problem solved.

 

[jn_12]

confused.....wouldn't it only be a billion dollar investment if you did build a new stadium? Surely it would not be a billion dollars to either get an expansion team or purchase and move an existing team?

Well Toronto only gets a team doing one of two things and both involves outbidding others. When Buffalo (or let's say Jacksonville or San Diego) goes up for sale, you're looking at an auction with the highest bidder winning. The Bills are worth around $800million right now (Jax is worth $725m and SD is worth $920m) so it wouldn't be crazy to see a billion dollar bid needed to get a the team. The other way is through expansion (which is doubtful) and only 10 years ago the expansion fee for Houston was $700million. The NFL could ask for much more that that if it wanted to.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well Toronto only gets a team doing one of two things and both involves outbidding others. When Buffalo (or let's say Jacksonville or San Diego) goes up for sale, you're looking at an auction with the highest bidder winning. The Bills are worth around $800million right now (Jax is worth $725m and SD is worth $920m) so it wouldn't be crazy to see a billion dollar bid needed to get a the team. The other way is through expansion (which is doubtful) and only 10 years ago the expansion fee for Houston was $700million. The NFL could ask for much more that that if it wanted to.

Someone could also move here.