Ford asks province for more than $150M

[SlickFranky]

Don't you find it very, very strange, that you find yourself pointing out the obvious, as if it were something not so obvious?

Foolishly, I keep thinking it's going to register at some point. What I wouldn't give to spend one day in the mind of some of these people, just to feel what it's like to have your brain ignore rational arguments. How does it work? Is it like a Charlie Brown's Teacher sort of thing? No matter what we type, are they just reading wuh-waa wuh-wuu whu-wuu wuh-waaah?

 

[GenerationW]

This could backfire really really badly for Ford. Municipalities operate at the pleasure of the Province. If McGuinty is re-elected, he's going to make Ford's life a living hell for 4 years. If the province wanted to, they could even enact legislation to essentially castrate the Mayor and give full power to city council. The Mayor would just be the figurehead. That's just one option.

Seems way too far-fetched to me. If that legislation were to apply to the rest of Ontario, other municipalities would oppose it, and if it was specific to Toronto, the Liberals would risk getting decimated in Toronto.

That is the thing with "Ford Nation" (which is even more cringe-worthy than the "Leaf Nation" this name has been plagiarized from)

It doesn't originate with the Leafs.

 

[nfitz]

Torontonians are taxed at the same rate as every other taxpayer in the province.

The issue is that Ontario per capita spends more money outside of Toronto. Particularly in rural areas.

Though look at the education portion of property tax. Since Harris, this is now directed to the provincial government, when then distributes it across Ontario school boards. The rate is the same across the province, but the average Toronto house is both smaller, and costs more, than the average small town house.

 

[Tewder]

Seeking more revenue is not at odds with trimming fat, no, but it's certainly at odds with trimming revenue. Mississauga just saw a 6% increase to the city portion of their property taxes while Toronto froze theirs -- and yet we're asking for more cash from the province? That's not going to play well.

I see where these things get sort of tangled but isn't there a difference between the mayor increasing his taxes or fees within the city on the one hand, and the mayor refusing to do so but asking for the province to pick up more on the other? We may be splitting hairs here somewhat, I agree, but spreading out some of the revenue burden for Toronto across all Ontario taxpayers seems to be the objective, so as to not have to increase the kinds of taxes/fees/charges within the city that would be 'unpopular' as Mississauga did.

As Nfitz points out there is an imbalance in per capita spending on Toronto vs other cities in Ontario; and as many here recognize the city does not get it's fair share. Now people re going to criticize?:

Ugh....obviously. We all recognize the imbalance, that the city is not getting it's fair share. That's not why people are making a fuss.

The only reason this is even slightly interesting is that the request came from Mr. we-have-a-spending-problem-not-a-revenue-problem. [...]

We don't think it's wrong that he asked...we think it's funny that he asked, and that he tried to do it in secret, and that he got all agro once it leaked. It's always entertaining when hard-liners have to live and work in the real world.

Well there you go, not 'wrong' but whatever. Ford is not the first politician to talk out of both sides of his mouth. You'd criticize him for not going to the Province, but just for different reasons. The people who voted for Ford will not see it your way, and they are the ones he is trying to appeal to after all.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Personally I think the threat is pretty hollow - those who are inclined to vote for Ford will probably not vote for McGuinity this time around regardless of what he does anyways. In fact, socking Ford might actually do McGuinty some good outside of the 416. Perverse, but that's probably how it will work out. Besides, as others have already noted - freezing property tax increase is actually a form of tax cut. Asking for uploading is one thing - asking for uploading and cutting your own taxes at the same time doesn't make for a strong rational case.

Tewder:

Ford is not the first politician to talk out of both sides of his mouth.

No, of course not - but he claims that isn't one of that ilk.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

It's crazy isn't it! Clinton claimed he never had sexual relations with Monical... at the end of the day it's all spin. I could see that in they eyes of Ford's camp it isn't an issue of increasing revenue by taxing the city (the city pays enough, whence there is no revenue problem), he's seeking to do so by going outside of it. Spin, to be sure but this is politics after all.

 

[Glen]

The issue is that Ontario per capita spends more money outside of Toronto.

What is your source for this?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think he overplayed his hand and the spin won't hold - just because the whole fiscal disclipine mantra resonates regardless of level of government you're on in the current political climate, and unlike Ford, McGuinty have a far great audience at this point for this sort of messaging. Besides, I think the message it too intangible - and there is always that transit announcement in the pipeline that can be used as a counterthreat. What's RF going to do after getting shot down? Appeal to Hudak for funding? Like he will take on that risk in an election year even if he is inclinded to do so - which he probably isn't.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

You could be right, time will tell.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think it's important to remember, too, that doesn't appear to be a calculated move on the part of Team Ford. This letter wasn't supposed to be public. The bravado could just be an attempt to save face.