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Ford asks province for more than $150M

I have had four friends that were Ford supporters, call me recently and suggest that they may have been wrong in supporting him. Is the mythical "Ford Nation" beginning to dissolve? In my circle of friends, it is. His hypocrisy, stupidity and ego are going to bring him down really quickly. By mid-year, he'll be in hiding, not just from the media and his opponents, but from council as well.
 
CN Tower said:
So you think the Premier is willing to completely restructure the municipal system for the entire province out of some sort of political spite? After being re-elected to office? Regardless of the public's response? The time? The cost?

And who exactly are you calling childish?

Mayor Ford is fighting for us guys! He wants more money for the people of Toronto. How can anyone, opponents or supporters, conceive this as a negative?
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I agree. It's nice to see a mayor of Toronto displaying a little chutzpah. You know, at least acting like or deluding himself to believe he actually has a little power to wield as mayor of the province's- and the nation's - largest and most important city. Crawling on the knees and begging for scraps just hasn't done the city very well either so why not try a new tactic? If nothing else, the shake-down will create a dialogue and expose some truths.
 
Tewder said:
I agree. It's nice to see a mayor of Toronto displaying a little chutzpah. You know, at least acting like or deluding himself to believe he actually has a little power to wield as mayor of the province's- and the nation's - largest and most important city. Crawling on the knees and begging for scraps just hasn't done the city very well either so why not try a new tactic? If nothing else, the shake-down will create a dialogue and expose some truths.
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Well, I guess. That blond-headed guys' whingeing and bootpolishing seems to have done pretty well over the years. For example, he had a FULLY FUNDED several billion dollar transit plan. You can yell at your Dad as much as you want, and he'll tolerate it for a while. When he stops tolerating it, there'll be a heckuva comeuppance. IMHO.
 
'Comeuppance', really? It's politics we're talking about here not grudge matches. Ford is playing a hand while he can. All politicians do this, or should. Despite the funding you mention - which *is* peanuts given the length of time in question and the needs of Toronto/GTA vis a vis what it contributes to the province - Toronto *has* been sorely neglected by the province and the feds. The mayor as whipping boy is not good for the city, hasn't been and will not continue to be. Again, even a break-down and uproar, along with a battle for Toronto funding, will be better in the long run than the pithy status quo.
 
Tewder said:
I agree. It's nice to see a mayor of Toronto displaying a little chutzpah. You know, at least acting like or deluding himself to believe he actually has a little power to wield as mayor of the province's- and the nation's - largest and most important city. Crawling on the knees and begging for scraps just hasn't done the city very well either so why not try a new tactic? If nothing else, the shake-down will create a dialogue and expose some truths.
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There is chutzpah and then there is being stupid. The city of Toronto has taxing powers that were granted to it by the province, and the mayor has opted to not use those powers. Instead, he has turned around and threatened a provincial government which has shown a reasonable level of sympathy to the city (and has even started the process to upload the funding of costly services back to the provincial level) all in an effort to get more money. Given the economic constraints of the times, it isn't likely that it will turn out the way he wants it to.

The fact that he invokes some idiotic "team Ford" imagery on behalf of the entire city is silly. Obviously not everyone supports him or his antics - which not doubt are a portent of things to come. Yet he is willing to use everyone in his childish threat.

If Ford wants to engage in a campaign for more money from the province, then he ought to make a reasoned case for it (and there is one to be made). The mayor has made all kinds of promises to cut costs without cutting services or raising taxes. He now has his back up against the wall as the province can simply hold him to his promises - promises that can never be realized.
 
David Miller literally did this exact same thing. Almost word-for-word. This isn't new.

People are criticizing Ford for this because:

a) he's asking for $150m (plus the TTC subsidy) in funding while simultaneously trimming $150m for the cities revenues this year. It doesn't make any sense.

b) this move doesn't just go against something he said during the election. It's contrary to his ENTIRE CAMPAIGN. Everything he said - everything people voted for - was predicated on the belief that the city had a spending problem, not a revenue problem, and we needed to get our fiscal house in order.

Making the need for a new deal with the province and the federal government an election issue could have led to some important dialogues. Instead it was hand-waved away as unimportant. Until now.
 
GraphicMatt said:
David Miller literally did this exact same thing. Almost word-for-word. This isn't new.

People are criticizing Ford for this because:

a) he's asking for $150m (plus the TTC subsidy) in funding while simultaneously trimming $150m for the cities revenues this year. It doesn't make any sense.

b) this move doesn't just go against something he said during the election. It's contrary to his ENTIRE CAMPAIGN. Everything he said - everything people voted for - was predicated on the belief that the city had a spending problem, not a revenue problem, and we needed to get our fiscal house in order.

Making the need for a new deal with the province and the federal government an election issue could have led to some important dialogues. Instead it was hand-waved away as unimportant. Until now.
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I agree GraphicMatt that there is probably a little tap dancing going on here. Ford ran on a very simple and clear message, which was its beauty but which was also limiting. He has to break free from it a bit, for his good but also for the city's. Still, seeking more revenues is not at odds with trimming fat. They are the two basic ways to improve the bottom line, which at the end of the day is what Ford voters seem to want to see.
 
Seeking more revenue is not at odds with trimming fat, no, but it's certainly at odds with trimming revenue. Mississauga just saw a 6% increase to the city portion of their property taxes while Toronto froze theirs -- and yet we're asking for more cash from the province? That's not going to play well.
 
Can someone explain why Del Grande (the budget chief) didn't know about this request for more funds? You'd think he'd be in the loop. Or is this outside of his duties?
 
GraphicMatt said:
David Miller literally did this exact same thing. Almost word-for-word. This isn't new.
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New in that under Miller the province received new taxing abilities, but this mayor refuses to use them. New in that Ford is only the second mayor to have a more centralized powers - Miller being the first.

What Ford is likely discovering is that he can't maintain services as promised while cutting taxes.

And to be clear, the reproducing bad practices of the past is not an excuse for Ford to engage in the same bad practices.
 
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Torontonians pay a massive amount of tax to the Ontario gov't. I see nothing wrong with demanding some of it back. For starters, all the downloading from the Harris days should be uploaded back to the province. Start with the TCHC, public housing and shelters for the province's poor should be paid for by the province, not Toronto's property taxpayers.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Torontonians pay a massive amount of tax to the Ontario gov't. I see nothing wrong with demanding some of it back. For starters, all the downloading from the Harris days should be uploaded back to the province. Start with the TCHC, public housing and shelters for the province's poor should be paid for by the province, not Toronto's property taxpayers.
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Ugh....obviously. We all recognize the imbalance, that the city is not getting it's fair share. That's not why people are making a fuss.

The only reason this is even slightly interesting is that the request came from Mr. we-have-a-spending-problem-not-a-revenue-problem. The guy that votes down money being offered by the province declaring it 'taxpayer money'. The guy that just got through cutting city revenue, mailing out rebate checks, freezing property tax, and is still planning to cut further revenue. Surely you remember the bit about the how the gravy through city hall flows so thick it could drown a pony. That's the guy who went to Dalton begging for money.

We don't think it's wrong that he asked...we think it's funny that he asked, and that he tried to do it in secret, and that he got all agro once it leaked. It's always entertaining when hard-liners have to live and work in the real world.
 
We don't think it's wrong that he asked...we think it's funny that he asked
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Don't you find it very, very strange, that you find yourself pointing out the obvious, as if it were something not so obvious?

That is the thing with "Ford Nation" (which is even more cringe-worthy than the "Leaf Nation" this name has been plagiarized from)...as long as whatever irrational nonsense that resonates with them about Rob Ford continues to resonate with them, he could be whipping puppies from the roof of city hall at the Henry Moore sculpture... they DON'T CARE!.

In fact, trying to force rationality on the irrational, usually backfires.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Torontonians pay a massive amount of tax to the Ontario gov't.
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Torontonians are taxed at the same rate as every other taxpayer in the province. The downloading of provincial responsibilities onto the cities during the Harris years has been a considerable burden. Uploading those to the provincial level would take some of the pressure off the city since Toronto shoulders a disproportionate amount. At least McGuinty has moved in that direction. Public housing and various social programs are just a few examples of the downloading costs. Another is having the city pay the cost for courthouse security. This leaves Toronto with a disproportionate burden when compared to all other cities in Ontario.
 
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