First problem with employer in Korea...

[wonderboy416]

Hey, those of you that know me are aware that I packed up and left Toronto to teach in Seoul for a year. Up until now the experience has been terrific and everything has been really great. I've learned to read/write Korean and communicate (albeit in a fairly basic form) verbally, I've learned much of the transit system (the subway map which I first thought was insane now makes perfect sense in my mind) and have really taken to the food, the people and the lifestyle here. Everything is on a much smaller scale than North America, public spaces are more confined, everyone lives in a high-rise or apartment villa, cars are small, trucks are small, there's people everywhere... retail is usually stacked 3-4 floors high... the typical coffee shop or mcdonalds is 3-4 stories and each level is usually packed with people, the population density is insane and I love every bit of it. Teaching has been good too and my school has been very fair and honoured all the terms of the contract I signed... until now.

I'm not sure how to proceed so I'd just like some advice/opinions.
The economy is in Korea is quite poor and sending your kids to an English private academy for kindergarten and after school classes has suddenly become something of a luxury, so our enrollment is way down. The school has let go some of the Korean teachers and increased our hours (within the limits of the contract), so the 7 of us foreign teachers (4 Canucks, 1 Kiwi, 1 Brit and an American) really have no reason to complain. We have a new boss and one of the first changes she implemented was that all teachers must be on the school property during the day...
And this is where we have our problem, if I worked 10-7 before... I'd have 3-4 40 minute breaks throughout the day which I'd come home and relax, make some food etc (the foreign teachers live across the street from our school). This new rule now means we can no longer do that and are now spending 9-10 hours (in some cases more) hours a DAY at the school... even though that is just sitting in our desks reading a book, playing nintendo ds or doing NOTHING. Our contracts state we're paid for teaching time (100 hours/month, anything in excess is to be paid overtime, anything over 110 hours requires our consent), prep time (1 hour before our first class), additional classroom duty (handing out snacks, helping them with their coats etc) and that we can be given work to do up to our total maximum amount of hours (110). No where does it say anything about our break time... we are in fact not paid for that time so there for we feel we should be free to do as we please. This is an extra 2-3 hours a day that each teacher is being forced to sit there and do nothing, it's quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever witnessed an employer make their employees do... their reason is that the business is bad and they need us to be there in case we need to "help out"...

Has anyone ever encountered such a similar situation? I know we're in a different country but it blows my mind that they can do this. Our boss didn't want to talk about it and said that during the school hours we are "property of the school". This is not in our terms of employment.

My thoughts are:
- get the school to put this policy in writing and have the president sign it (if the school can't do this clearly they admit they're in the wrong)
- take a copy of our contract and said policy to a lawyer and find out what their legal opinion is and what our options are

Also the contract states the terms under which our employment may be terminated... which is violating the terms of the contract... the way I see it, that time is mine and as long as I'm not breaking the law or violating my contract I'm free to do whatever I want with it and the school cannot terminate me (or the other teachers for it).

Am I nuts or is this a reasonable course of action?
It's a little scary in a foreign country where you don't have easy access to the laws (then again even in Canada things like labour laws are best left to experts in the field). So this is putting a pretty big damper on "all the fun" in Korea, especially since I have a few buddies from Toronto coming this month to stay with me for 3 weeks.

Also 3-4 foreign teachers walking out would pretty much destroy the school since we're the reason why the parents pay the kids to come there in the first place. It takes about a month to arrange for a new teacher (recruiting, getting the VISA etc etc) if everything goes smoothly and even then a lot of people get cold feet and never step onto the plane. Also with the Korean won being so incredibly low I can't imagine too many people are lined up to come teach here.

Oh well.. just a rant... but how would you like to sit at a desk for 20 hours a week with NO work to do and NOT get paid for being there?

 

[ShonTron]

Oh jeez. I know that you're in a difficult position being a foreigner where you're almost dependant on your employer as you just can't quit and take something else. The idea of having to stay at the school is ridiculous indeed.

Though in terms of things, you could be much worse. A relative went to China for a year to teach. As his employer's contracts moved around, he was expected to commute to different schools everyday (and having to ride the bus constantly at Y1 each time). He got kindergarten classes that he was not told he was going to do. His boss put more demands on him as the boss' business lost contracts with schools. Not that's too much comfort though.

Perhaps, if you have fellow teachers with the same gripe and can trust, why not see if they can work out an agreement. Do you all have the same break time, or is it split up? Is there a reasonable compromise that you can see? I don't think a lawyer will be too much help on what may be seen as a 'petty' grievance.

 

[yin_yang]

Hey, those of you that know me are aware that I packed up and left Toronto to teach in Seoul for a year. Up until now the experience has been terrific and everything has been really great. I've learned to read/write Korean and communicate (albeit in a fairly basic form) verbally, I've learned much of the transit system (the subway map which I first thought was insane now makes perfect sense in my mind) and have really taken to the food, the people and the lifestyle here. Everything is on a much smaller scale than North America, public spaces are more confined, everyone lives in a high-rise or apartment villa, cars are small, trucks are small, there's people everywhere... retail is usually stacked 3-4 floors high... the typical coffee shop or mcdonalds is 3-4 stories and each level is usually packed with people, the population density is insane and I love every bit of it. Teaching has been good too and my school has been very fair and honoured all the terms of the contract I signed... until now.

I'm not sure how to proceed so I'd just like some advice/opinions.
The economy is in Korea is quite poor and sending your kids to an English private academy for kindergarten and after school classes has suddenly become something of a luxury, so our enrollment is way down. The school has let go some of the Korean teachers and increased our hours (within the limits of the contract), so the 7 of us foreign teachers (4 Canucks, 1 Kiwi, 1 Brit and an American) really have no reason to complain. We have a new boss and one of the first changes she implemented was that all teachers must be on the school property during the day...
And this is where we have our problem, if I worked 10-7 before... I'd have 3-4 40 minute breaks throughout the day which I'd come home and relax, make some food etc (the foreign teachers live across the street from our school). This new rule now means we can no longer do that and are now spending 9-10 hours (in some cases more) hours a DAY at the school... even though that is just sitting in our desks reading a book, playing nintendo ds or doing NOTHING. Our contracts state we're paid for teaching time (100 hours/month, anything in excess is to be paid overtime, anything over 110 hours requires our consent), prep time (1 hour before our first class), additional classroom duty (handing out snacks, helping them with their coats etc) and that we can be given work to do up to our total maximum amount of hours (110). No where does it say anything about our break time... we are in fact not paid for that time so there for we feel we should be free to do as we please. This is an extra 2-3 hours a day that each teacher is being forced to sit there and do nothing, it's quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever witnessed an employer make their employees do... their reason is that the business is bad and they need us to be there in case we need to "help out"...

Has anyone ever encountered such a similar situation? I know we're in a different country but it blows my mind that they can do this. Our boss didn't want to talk about it and said that during the school hours we are "property of the school". This is not in our terms of employment.

My thoughts are:
- get the school to put this policy in writing and have the president sign it (if the school can't do this clearly they admit they're in the wrong)
- take a copy of our contract and said policy to a lawyer and find out what their legal opinion is and what our options are

Also the contract states the terms under which our employment may be terminated... which is violating the terms of the contract... the way I see it, that time is mine and as long as I'm not breaking the law or violating my contract I'm free to do whatever I want with it and the school cannot terminate me (or the other teachers for it).

Am I nuts or is this a reasonable course of action?
It's a little scary in a foreign country where you don't have easy access to the laws (then again even in Canada things like labour laws are best left to experts in the field). So this is putting a pretty big damper on "all the fun" in Korea, especially since I have a few buddies from Toronto coming this month to stay with me for 3 weeks.

Also 3-4 foreign teachers walking out would pretty much destroy the school since we're the reason why the parents pay the kids to come there in the first place. It takes about a month to arrange for a new teacher (recruiting, getting the VISA etc etc) if everything goes smoothly and even then a lot of people get cold feet and never step onto the plane. Also with the Korean won being so incredibly low I can't imagine too many people are lined up to come teach here.

Oh well.. just a rant... but how would you like to sit at a desk for 20 hours a week with NO work to do and NOT get paid for being there?

that is a tough one...if you leave, you chance getting fired, obviously. but at the same time, it's not a huuuge deal and perhaps you should bear it if they are REALLY adamant on it. it sounds stupid, and i know next to nothing about the personalities there...but good luck.

 

[khris]

My advice would be leave Korea. That's pretty simple really.

 

[wonderboy416]

My advice would be leave Korea. That's pretty simple really.

Easy to say, hard to do. I'd hate to think I left a great job behind (and walked away from a nice year end bonus) for a 4 month stay in Korea that ended miserable, cost me a plane ticket home and also my deposit (20% of my first 3 paycheques which I get back at the end of my contract, plus one month bonus pay, plus a hefty tax return, about $7,000 in total), I'd be breaking even but out a job if I went back to Toronto now... it was really meant to be a one or two year venture... and prior to this recent change things were just awesome here.

I'm going to speak to my boss next week with some other teachers and see how it goes. If not, once my visitors (who are coming this month) return to Toronto, I'll just start going home on my breaks and behaving like before and if they want to fire me unjustly then go ahead, I'll file a grievance, post my story on eslcafe so whenever anyone googles the name of my school as a prospective employer (which you'd be stupid not to if you were about to take a job) people would know to avoid it. It's been on my mind all day and really pissing me off.. ugh

 

[jn_12]

khristopher: Leave Korea/opportunity of a lifetime over this? Wow...

Wonderboy: A couple thoughts came to my mind: Is your boss Korean or a foreigner? Is there an over-arching body/organization that you an turn to for advice, or at least some network of foreigners that are over there that you could turn to for help? Is there a way to argue that if you are now meant to stay "just in case" that technically you are "on call", and should be paid for it?

Having never been in the situation I don't have any answers, but I think you foreigners have power in numbers. You're obviously integral to operations there, and if you either worked to rule, or said you weren't going to work until this was rectified they'd have little they could do about it. Firing you wouldn't be an option because as you said, they can't replace you quick enough.

 

[Brian69]

Wonderboy,

This kind of thing is quite common in Korea. Bosses expect staff to be around for office hours (a kind of face time) and it looks good for the school when foreigners are around--it's good publicity to the parents who drop in as more Westerners=better quality in the mind of many parents simply because the foreigners speak English well. They don't always teach it well, but they speak it. So I suspect this is a way for the boss to show off the foreigners. It could also be a control issue depending on the personality of the boss.

As far as your options go it really depends. If you are on regular work visa (E-2 if its the same as it used to be) then you are tied to that school and if you break the contract by leaving you can't return to Korea until the contract expires. And if the school really wanted to be shitty about it they could appeal to immigration to keep you out longer. Usually they don't because they can't be bothered. However, while it wouldn't prevent you from leaving (though you might have to do it without letting the boss know) it would screw your chances of returning anytime soon. That's one nice thing about Japan--you can break your contract and sign a new one anytime with relatively little hassle because your visa isn't tied to a particular school.

But anyway, if you try to make them put it in writing I have no doubt they'd simply do so--it's not hard for them to draw up a new contract or clause if its worth it to them, so I have a feeling that bluff wouldn't work. Even if they aren't legally allowed to do it, trust me when I say hagwans don't usually abide by the letter of the law anyway. Taking the contract to a lawyer is a better option, and the more foreigners you get on side the better. The school can't afford to lose a bunch of you at once and this is your best bargaining chip. Once you know you are on solid legal ground you can come back to the boss with a united front. You likely wouldn't need all 7 foreigners but if at least half go for it I think the economic ramifications of losing them might sway the boss. It might make things a bit uncomfortable for awhile but if the play isn't a fly-by-night operation to begin with you should be able to finish your contract with pay (and bonus?) in hand. Is your contract written both in English and Korean? If so a lawyer could compare them in case some clauses are different.

When I was in Korea this site had a good reputation for helping teachers:

http://www.efl-law.com/korea.php

Now, it's been awhile so I can't vouch for how they are these days but checking the site out or contacting them might help. It used to be run by a foreign lawyer working in Korea.

 

[fieras]

There's two ways of looking at it. Either you suck it up and be happy you're employed, or you combine efforts with the other teachers and take it up with management. If you do the latter, make sure you have a best alternative to no agreement and stick to it. If you are all prepared to walk over this issue, they will likely heed your demands. Otherwise they got you behind the 8 ball

 

[wonderboy416]

b)Wonderboy: A couple thoughts came to my mind: Is your boss Korean or a foreigner? Is there an over-arching body/organization that you an turn to for advice, or at least some network of foreigners that are over there that you could turn to for help? Is there a way to argue that if you are now meant to stay "just in case" that technically you are "on call", and should be paid for it?

I'm not sure, I'll have to look into it. That link Brian69 provided could lead to the answer, I'll be exploring it more soon.

This kind of thing is quite common in Korea. Bosses expect staff to be around for office hours (a kind of face time) and it looks good for the school when foreigners are around--it's good publicity to the parents who drop in as more Westerners=better quality in the mind of many parents simply because the foreigners speak English well. They don't always teach it well, but they speak it. So I suspect this is a way for the boss to show off the foreigners. It could also be a control issue depending on the personality of the boss.

Yes I've had these same thoughts. Every native Korean has mentioned face time and that many employees are merely sub servant to their bosses. They stay at work until the boss goes home... if the boss invites them out for dinner they go out for dinner regardless of any plans already in place... if the boss then wants to go drinking and to a singing room, they too follow along even if they've been at the office since 8am. It's one of the reasons why parents leave their kids in private academy's late on weekdays, a form of babysitting. However, this is not a case where I want to impress my boss. In no way will this job ever affect my future career paths in Canada... I will never have a reference (except maybe a foreign co-teacher) come from there either. To me, both parties should simply fulfill their obligations to each other and that's that. What's ironic is that the last 3-4 classes I teach on one of these mega-long days are quite poor... my head's not in it and I can't make the effort to go the extra mile and resort to just reading from the materials provided and doing workbooks, which is in my mind a lazy way to teach... but it gives me much respect for all those who are teachers and are able to give it their all each class... I just have nothing in the tank at the end of the day.. yet if I could relax on my breaks I'm sure I would have drastically better classes. I'm not sure how my boss will react if/when I make this point.

My school is a branch of YBM, one of the better known, least sketchy school's in Korea.. so it will be interesting to see how they respond and if they do anything shady. I'm really hoping they put this new policy in writing as there's nothing in my contract that states the terms of the agreement are subject to change for any other reason than a change in Korean law. I've spent 6 years working for two insurance companies and have become very good at reading large, wordy contracts, this one is almost too simple by comparison, I'm quite positive nowhere am I compensated for this time and nowhere does it state that i'm "property of the school" as my boss put it during the working hours. Thanks for your response and advice, you've given me something's worthwhile to look into. Also I think losing 2 or more of us would be devastating for the school.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Any further postings that is not relevant to the topic at hand will be deleted.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

An odd situation - but I wouldn't loose too much sleep over it. I doubt it will last long - let it go for a bit; and then start ignoring it. Bring a good book to read; fall asleep in a corner. I doubt that the employer will see the benefit of this for long.

You have to remember how different the culture there is. Employee rights aren't exactly a priority. You've seen the hours some of the locals work, following their drunk bosses around the city, too timid to go home. If you challenge it too much, you'll likely find yourself at the top of the list for the next cut. And I wouldn't underestimate your expendability!!

What a great opportunity being there!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

If there is one thing to remember - it's the importance of giving "face" in Asian cultures - whatever you do, leave an out for the individual(s) in question.

nfitz:

The funny thing is - they don't "work" - they are just there be provide the appearance of working. Again, a matter of face and social graces.

 

[syn]

I'm sorry to hear about this. Unfortunately it's a pretty common story. I've actually heard much worse.

I think Brian69's advice is the best - do some research and then approach your boss with a united front. These guys are almost strictly about dollars and cents. If all of you drop hints you'll leave together, he'll make some concessions.

 

[kEiThZ]

I would think that working 9-10 hours a day is fairly standard. To the best of my knowledge that's about standard in most of Asia. Only you can judge what the employment conditions are like over there, but I would suggest that what you are experiencing is probably going to be the new norm as the global recession impacts countries around the world (including Korea).

 

[cacruden]

Although I have no experience of anything Korean - so take with a grain of salt.

You might have been treated special before because you are a foreigner - and now the new boss is treating you more like a Korean employee. Often you are paid for work ours of "n" hours, but you are expected to work more hours than "n" (especially if you are a guy).

For example - in Japan (some companies) - you might be expected to arrive early - do calisthenics etc. and make sure you are at your desk when the clock tics the appointed hour. It is not acceptable to be late. You also are expected to work longer hours, but the time card will read what is legally acceptable as a maximum. You might be expected to go out with all the other employees after work - not doing so would not be acceptable -- I believe it is called breaking the circle. Work is most important. So these special requirements to be on school grounds during certain hours does not sound out of the ordinary.

My suggestion is that if you like your job, just take the bad with the good.