News   Dec 20, 2024
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Finch West Line 6 LRT

Again as probably the most casual transit enthusiasts on here, the doors opening at every stop is definitely not as cumbersome as some make it out to be.

It's an expectation that every train will stop at a station stop, even if empty. On streetcars like at st clair, that expectation isn't there because in Toronto we don't look at the streetcar the same as we do subways(above, below or at grade)

The crosstown will be looked at and operated as a subway, even the at grade sections.
You know what's funny, as someone who lives on St Clair I still occasionally have to remind myself to press the button. I've missed my stop due to the absent minded assumption the streetcar will stop at every stop more than I'd like to admit. This never happened to me before the ROW, so I'd have to assume that it's the nature of the line that causes me to behave this way.

But those nights when the streetcar flies down the entire route in 7 mins makes it all worth it.
 
A) the doors on every LRT are wide enough that one person standing there isn't going to block another person from standing next to them, and there's nothing stopping that person from taking initiative for their own life and opening the door themselves. Or speaking up and letting the confused passenger know what the deal is.
B)


Yeah, cause pushing a button is a real insurmountable challenge.

Having a vehicle stop, and then depart again a few seconds later instead of opening its doors is still faster than opening the doors and closing them.

As for not having any request stops, don't get me started on that.


What a typically Torontonian attitude. Any and all suggestions to improve transit European style are immediately dismissed because we're not in Europe, as though European cities exist in a reality of their own. It's not as though Europe is a diverse continent made up of many nations, all of which - quelle surprise - manage to make certain universal transit solutions work despite their differences, right?


Slippery slope fallacy. But this explains a little bit more about your ideology when it comes to this opposition. Let me guess, you're not paid to do the job of a train driver, right? Someone else should just do it for you? And you don't get paid either, I take it, to be an elevator operator, yes?


I don't think it's controversial to suggest that most people don't enjoy a blast of cold air in their face and I do not view it as being at all necessary to back that stance up, anymore than I need to justify that most people don't enjoy being punched in the face. But your assertion that people don't care about cold being let into the vehicle superfluously is one that requires some numbers behind it.
I don't understand why you want to make a big deal about this and make it as if we are failing as a city because they said they don't have plans to activate a button.

The reason they are on them is because originally the TTC had planned to use them as they do in Europe however they found that people weren't doing that because they were waiting for the doors to open for them. Because they were using a similar design on line 5 they didn't make any changes to it because it was too far along in the design process to make changes that small without a large cost. As for lone 6 Metrolinx picked a design and made no changes to it at all so well they could have gotten rid of the buttons they didn't bother because they made no significant design decisions on them at all.
 
I don't understand why you want to make a big deal about this and make it as if we are failing as a city because they said they don't have plans to activate a button.

The reason they are on them is because originally the TTC had planned to use them as they do in Europe however they found that people weren't doing that because they were waiting for the doors to open for them. Because they were using a similar design on line 5 they didn't make any changes to it because it was too far along in the design process to make changes that small without a large cost. As for lone 6 Metrolinx picked a design and made no changes to it at all so well they could have gotten rid of the buttons they didn't bother because they made no significant design decisions on them at all.
Strangely enough, for the first time ever about a week ago a 512 streetcar I was on stopped at a stop for a couple seconds before I'd realized all other passengers at other doors disembarked and that I was required to press the button to open the doors. Perhaps it was driver error, but I've never seen this happen before.
 
Strangely enough, for the first time ever about a week ago a 512 streetcar I was on stopped at a stop for a couple seconds before I'd realized all other passengers at other doors disembarked and that I was required to press the button to open the doors. Perhaps it was driver error, but I've never seen this happen before.
So because they do it on one streetcar route that means that they are going to do it on both the Eglinton crosstown and Finch west as well. The streetcar routes operate differently than they have planed for the LRT routes, I've seen on St. Claire and Queen's Quay where they operate both ways opening all the doors or waiting for the person to push the button it all depends on how crowded the platform is and how many people are standing in the door ways. I have also seen many times were people scream for the driver to open the doors because they are either too lazy to push the button or don't want to for various reasons. Also don't forget we don't really know exactly what peoples travel patterns will be on both Eglinton and Finch west yet, they might at non busy times if there are only open the doors if there are a large number of people on board the train and waiting at the platform otherwise they might have people using the button, which has its own set of problems as i said before. One example of why someone might not want to push it is because of religious beliefs that they aren't supposed to do so, or for someone else it could be a cleanliness issue or things like that, we can't make an assumption that everyone is willing or able to push a button on their own when they don't expect to do it.
 
I don't understand why you want to make a big deal about this and make it as if we are failing as a city because they said they don't have plans to activate a button.

The reason they are on them is because originally the TTC had planned to use them as they do in Europe however they found that people weren't doing that because they were waiting for the doors to open for them. Because they were using a similar design on line 5 they didn't make any changes to it because it was too far along in the design process to make changes that small without a large cost. As for lone 6 Metrolinx picked a design and made no changes to it at all so well they could have gotten rid of the buttons they didn't bother because they made no significant design decisions on them at all.
No, the buttons are not a big deal. Which is why it should be no big deal to activate them, right?

It's the attitudes that are behind this which are the problem. Toronto never had anything remotely resembling an education campaign behind the door enable buttons, an extremely minor change which would have been no big deal to any functional adult and would have introduced a higher degree of passenger comfort, but they immediately wrote it off as unworkable in the city. When you've had 100 years of people stepping down onto treadles to activate the doors, of course it's an adjustment, but if people could figure out on buses to go from stepping down to pushing bars on the doors, they would've been able to figure this out, too.

I see attitudes like this at work every single day, whenever there is anything that is scary or unknown or challenging to a customer, they verbally abuse us instead of asking for help or trying to figure it out. I get 30 year olds who can't figure out how a self check out works. I don't think this is an attitude that should be encouraged, it is an attitude that should be expunged from every crevice of our modern civilization. The "Toronto is not Europe" is also not an argument against doing anything, unless the implicit admission is that Europeans are far smarter than Torontonians and can figure out trivial, basic concepts that Torontonians struggle with - and I'm sure that's not the idea you wanted to present.
 
Should have some commercials shown on TV the week or so before opening...
What about people who don't watch TV or fast forward through commercials? The problem is not everyone will pay attention to it or you will have people who are like why do we need a commercial to tell us how to use public transit? Waterfront Toronto already tried something like that too explain how to use Queens Quay after they made a mess of it which only cauaed people to make fyn of it because why do you need to watch a YouTube video on how to use a street.
 
Toronto never had anything remotely resembling an education campaign behind the door enable buttons,
The problem is not everyone may understand something like that. Another problem is how do you go about it, do you put it on the news but that only reaches people who watch the news on TV what about people who don't, or people who don't own a TV or fast forward through commercials if you make it one instead?
. I get 30 year olds who can't figure out how a self check out works.
No that's just people who are lazy and "don't want to take a job away from someone else". I'm 43 and use self checkout all the time and no one had to teach me how to use it.
 
The problem is not everyone may understand something like that. Another problem is how do you go about it, do you put it on the news but that only reaches people who watch the news on TV what about people who don't, or people who don't own a TV or fast forward through commercials if you make it one instead?

No that's just people who are lazy and "don't want to take a job away from someone else". I'm 43 and use self checkout all the time and no one had to teach me how to use it.
I will give on that in that self-checkout today is much better than in the past. The self-checkouts of ten years ago were ultra-strict on a long series of rules about how you scanned and bagged everything, and if you did one thing which it thought was in the wrong order, the whole thing would shutdown and call for an attendant, ostensibly to assist you, but really they were there to make sure you weren't stealing Cheerios. You could master one stores process, but another would have a totally different method of doing things which would get you in trouble there.
Also the payment processes ten years ago were way slower too, especially with many people still paying with bills and coins and the usual issues with that.

The new machines seem to have dropped a lot of the rules and just let you buy, pay, and go without a default assumption that you are using the machine because you are trying to commit grand larceny.

I'm glad the days of robo-voice "please place the item in the bag", "you have not placed the item in the bag", "you must place your last item in the bag to continue" are over.
 
But those nights when the streetcar flies down the entire route in 7 mins makes it all worth it.
I remember a friend who bought a condo way out at Long Branch Loop around 2010 and had a housewarming party. It went very late into the night. I took the streetcar back downtown because the last eastbound GO Train was done for the night. I remember it was an ALRV, and I sat at the very back.
I got on at the first stop on the route and I think between there and Humber it only made two other stops. There were times it was going so fast down Lake Shore I thought the back section was going to fly off the tracks on some of those long sweeping curves down there. I'm pretty sure it cleared Long Branch to Humber in under 10 minutes. It didn't start to slow down until it got past Roncesvalles and essentially had to cut speed.
 
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No, the buttons are not a big deal. Which is why it should be no big deal to activate them, right?

It's the attitudes that are behind this which are the problem. Toronto never had anything remotely resembling an education campaign behind the door enable buttons, an extremely minor change which would have been no big deal to any functional adult and would have introduced a higher degree of passenger comfort, but they immediately wrote it off as unworkable in the city. When you've had 100 years of people stepping down onto treadles to activate the doors, of course it's an adjustment, but if people could figure out on buses to go from stepping down to pushing bars on the doors, they would've been able to figure this out, too.

I see attitudes like this at work every single day, whenever there is anything that is scary or unknown or challenging to a customer, they verbally abuse us instead of asking for help or trying to figure it out. I get 30 year olds who can't figure out how a self check out works. I don't think this is an attitude that should be encouraged, it is an attitude that should be expunged from every crevice of our modern civilization. The "Toronto is not Europe" is also not an argument against doing anything, unless the implicit admission is that Europeans are far smarter than Torontonians and can figure out trivial, basic concepts that Torontonians struggle with - and I'm sure that's not the idea you wanted to present.
Somebody should make a meme of Torontonians trying to enter/exit an LRV train in Calgary, without pushing the button.
 
If one knows how to use the new-fanged automatic elevators, then they should be able to use the button-operated doors on the streetcars/light rail/metro/subway/Ontario Line's doors.

There will be a test later...

Unless we get turbolifts by the time all the transit projects in Toronto are fully opened.
 
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