Finch West Line 6 LRT

[salsa]

Also I can comment how the BRT along hwy 7 has made the area from woodbine to bayview from a badly congested area to a really congested area. So any consideration for Finch west LRT would be great

If 6 to 8 lanes of traffic right next to a 12 lane freeway is not good enough for Markham and Richmond Hill, then honestly there is nothing that can be done.

 

[INTz]

If 6 to 8 lanes of traffic right next to a 12 lane freeway is not good enough for Markham and Richmond Hill, then honestly there is nothing that can be done.

If it wasn't a toll road then there probably would be no problem.

 

[nfitz]

If it wasn't a toll road then there probably would be no problem.

There's a simple solution, toll Highway 7.

Highway 7 was a nightmare, even before they added VIVA.

But hang on - looking at Google Streetview - it was 3 lanes in each direction before; and 3 lanes now (but less buses interfering with traffic). How had Viva made the congestion worse BurlOak?

 

[crs1026]

Why would there be any additional congestion? There's already a no-left turn phase at most (if not all) of the lights - and now there'll be an LRT utilizing that phase as well; no need to lengthen. With all the buses off the road, I'd think there'd be less congestion, even if there's no additional ridership.

The traffic studies say otherwise, and left turns appear to be one of the problem areas.

http://thecrosstown.ca/sites/default/files/pdf/reports/Finch-EA/appendix_c.pdf

The level of service for traffic at major intersections is expected to be lower (more congested) than at present with the introduction of the LRT because of the additional U-turn traffic demand in left-turn lanes; the removal of bus bays, which were de facto right-turn lanes; and the removal of “permissive” left-turn movements on Finch Avenue at signalized intersections as a safety feature for the LRT operation.

I'm still learning how to read a traffic study, but it looks like the change in timing needed for east-west traffic will make north-south traffic pile up badly on the main arteries. Keele-Finch is projected to become unacceptable in all directions.

The study indicates that LRT will lead to much faster travel times than can be achieved with bus. That's good news. I continue to wonder however why we would implement LRT in a way that we know will create problems. The public really isn't sensitive to price, so long as LRT remains significantly cheaper than subway (and stays on budget). We don't need a Lexus solution, but ordering power windows and leather seats on the Toyota might save a lot of pain.

- Paul

 

[INTz]

There's a simple solution, toll Highway 7.

Highway 7 was a nightmare, even before they added VIVA.

But hang on - looking at Google Streetview - it was 3 lanes in each direction before; and 3 lanes now (but less buses interfering with traffic). How had Viva made the congestion worse BurlOak?

That would be one solution. Although I'd much rather prefer the highway taken back by the province and all tolls removed. Seems to be more in line with the rest of of city

 

[salsa]

I'm still learning how to read a traffic study, but it looks like the change in timing needed for east-west traffic will make north-south traffic pile up badly on the main arteries. Keele-Finch is projected to become unacceptable in all directions.

The LRT goes underground at Keele to connect to the subway. How on earth is "Keele-Finch projected to become unacceptable in all directions"?

 

[crs1026]

The LRT goes underground at Keele to connect to the subway. How on earth is "Keele-Finch projected to become unacceptable in all directions"?

I didn't do my argument any favours by pointing to that one, did I? ;-)

Yeah, the studies were done back when the line was supposed to go to Yonge St. The underground termination at the Spadina line came later....and thank heavens they recognized that one.

There are a couple further tough spots between Keele and Humber. I'm not gonna go back and find them. Keele was the worst. My point remains - let's not be excessively stingy and spoil the result.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

They have listened and are making changes. For example, instead of one left turn from westbound Finch to southbound Arrow, they're putting in two left turn lanes.

And putting the bicycle lane into an underpass at the 400 southbound ramp from eastbound Finch.

 

[Voltz]

Yeah, the studies were done back when the line was supposed to go to Yonge St. The underground termination at the Spadina line came later....and thank heavens they recognized that one.

- Paul

The connection to the Subway at Keele was planned to be underground before the line was cut east of there,

 

[junctionist]

I'm glad to see they're taking cycling infrastructure seriously. The LRT lines have the potential to transform cycling in the suburbs by providing safe infrastructure across the city.

 

[BurlOak]

There's a simple solution, toll Highway 7.

Highway 7 was a nightmare, even before they added VIVA.

But hang on - looking at Google Streetview - it was 3 lanes in each direction before; and 3 lanes now (but less buses interfering with traffic). How had Viva made the congestion worse BurlOak?

I'm not sure. I've never really thought about transit on highway 7, nor have I posted about it.
Maybe BRT Lite with bypass lanes at intersections would have been more appropriate?

 

[W. K. Lis]

A bus requires a wider right-of-way (or lane) than a light rail vehicle, because of the sway or margin of error buses require.

 

[Steve X]

I'm not sure. I've never really thought about transit on highway 7, nor have I posted about it.
Maybe BRT Lite with bypass lanes at intersections would have been more appropriate?

The traffic signal phases have to include the left turn phase will slows down everything. Now imagine having a chain of 15-20 signals like this that previously wasn't there. By adding 10 seconds at every stop, road capacity gets used up pretty quickly.

 

[salsa]

Mammoliti's giant flag pole returns?

 

[crs1026]

There is an agenda item on Toronto's Executive Committee March 9th meeting with a bunch of stuff about the Finch LRT

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2016.EX13.9

- Paul