Finch West Line 6 LRT

[KhalilHeron]

A lot of people really oversell how much of this project is elevated. It’s a small section, conveniently in Thorncliffe Park and Flemingdon Park. I think many underestimate how much push back elevated will receive. I’m not saying it’s right. I would just like to warn people not to get their hopes up.

Yea the elevated sections of line 3 and 5 give me some hope but we are yet to see elevated rail near single family homes, which is where most of the pushback would come from. Its a whole other beast getting people on board in an environment like this

compared to this

doesnt help that a lot of people in Thorncliffe and Flemingdon park who may be opposed to the project dont speak fluent english or do not have the political power or no how to make their voices heard.

 

[FW36]

Yea the elevated sections of line 3 and 5 give me some hope but we are yet to see elevated rail near single family homes, which is where most of the pushback would come from. Its a whole other beast getting people on board in an environment like thisView attachment 702189
compared to this
View attachment 702190
doesnt help that a lot of people in Thorncliffe and Flemingdon park who may be opposed to the project dont speak fluent english or do not have the political power or no how to make their voices heard.

In that instance government should ignore push back. Toronto is a major city that requires major transit improvements. Install sound barriers on elevated section. Easy solution

 

[KhalilHeron]

In that instance government should ignore push back. Toronto is a major city that requires major transit improvements. Install sound barriers on elevated section. Easy solution

Ignoring pushback sounds like an easy way for someone to lose their next election and for their projects to get cancelled. Getting the majority of people on board should be the goal. We certainly can't cave to all demands but entirely ignoring community concerns is not a good strategy

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Its a significant amount that it could be used as a self-reference. When trying to convince the public or management of an idea, its a lot easier to say "check out this thing we have already built and look how its not a loud clanky mess like Chicago", vs "Vancouver's elevated guideways are fine" to a room of people who have likely never been in Vancouver. The moment you have one remotely substantial segment, it will make it a lot easier to push for more of that.

Sic Line 5 East extension vs OL? It was never about negative pushback per se - but who is doing it vis-a-vis the powers that be.

AoD

 

[FW36]

Ignoring pushback sounds like an easy way for someone to lose their next election and for their projects to get cancelled. Getting the majority of people on board should be the goal. We certainly can't cave to all demands but entirely ignoring community concerns is not a good strat

I understand it may result in losing an election but what is the alternative. Spending a large sum of money on a worse transit project that people will still complain about. Toronto should still address peoples concerns but with the paramiter that elevated rail is built. Sound barriers can be built to mitigate sound concerns, heated stations built to allow comfort for passengers, integration of stations with communities and easy bus transfer to encourage high ridership. That's how you adress concerns about elevated rail. Not by not building elevated rail in the first place or building a worse transit project.

 

[adys123]

Its a significant amount that it could be used as a self-reference. When trying to convince the public or management of an idea, its a lot easier to say "check out this thing we have already built and look how its not a loud clanky mess like Chicago", vs "Vancouver's elevated guideways are fine" to a room of people who have likely never been in Vancouver. The moment you have one remotely substantial segment, it will make it a lot easier to push for more of that.

And there is definitely the attitude on Ontario Line that they have to get the elevated segment right, to ensure that it remains palatable in the future.

 

[KhalilHeron]

I understand it may result in losing an election but what is the alternative. Spending a large sum of money on a worse transit project that people will still complain about. Toronto should still address peoples concerns but with the paramiter that elevated rail is built. Sound barriers can be built to mitigate sound concerns, heated stations built to allow comfort for passengers, integration of stations with communities and easy bus transfer to encourage high ridership. That's how you adress concerns about elevated rail. Not by not building elevated rail in the first place or building a worse transit project.

Getting people on board is the alternative, not building a worse transit line. Measures like you mentioned could be a part of that, together with community outreach, education, and maybe more. Maybe no design changes need to be implemented just cost comparisons could convince people. I'm in no way saying we shouldn't build elevated transit, just that the elevated sections of line 5 and 3 under construction dont guarantee that elevated rail will be received well in the rest of the city, and that ignoring those concerns aren't how we should be planning a transit network

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Let Finch and Eglinton be the last LRTs this city builds. Fine to extend Line 6 to Finch station and maybe onto Seneca Newnham, but that's it.

To quote our crack smoking former mayor, we should be building subways...subways, subways.

He was so right

 

[robmausser]

Let Finch and Eglinton be the last LRTs this city builds. Fine to extend Line 6 to Finch station and maybe onto Seneca Newnham, but that's it.

To quote our crack smoking former mayor, we should be building subways...subways, subways.

I dont even think Finch station extension is worth it. Much better to extend Sheppard subway east. It will mostly serve as a connector between Line 1s. And then it makes the Finch line redundant.

Finch LRT needs to be extended to Airport through Woodbine.

Waterfront West LRT is worth it because majority of track is already there, its just about enhancing and connecting it through Exhibition. Its just a streetcar upgrade.

Eglinton East LRT should only have been done if it extended the existing Crosstown. Now since thats apparently impossible, make it a BRT.

 

[robmausser]

Waterfront LRT and Eglinton East LRT are still to come.
My preference is that both should be BRT however.

Waterfront East.

Waterfront West should be LRT because 70% of it is already finished. Its more about connecting the Queensway ROW to Exhibition.

 

[robmausser]

(Double reply, evil i know)

I really gotta emphasize that the 6 FW is literally just a prettified 512/510/509. There's nothing really interesting to it. The only thing that really changes infra-wise is the double point switches, no turnback loops, and standard gauge. The rest is fluff. Off-board payment, level boarding, nicer signage... And unsurprisingly, the 6 performs on par, speed wise, as the 512/510/509, because that's it. That's the only changes.

But due to its LIGHT RAIL designation, 6 FW was mentally put on a higher standard than the rest. It was supposed to be faster. The 512/510/509 is slow due to infra and switches or whatever, or the 1000 other reasons the TTC trots out. The 6 FW was supposed to fix all the infra problems- which they did- and when all the infra problems were solved, it revealed that it was just the TTC being horrible at operations.

Left alone, the TTC has only made the streetcars slower on dedicated ROW routes. Left alone, the 6 FW will only get slower. The public, province, MX, and city need to kick TTC into high gear. Other agencies would operate this exact same line at 20+kmh avg, as has been shown in this thread.

Ill go one better. I think this is proof the transit system needs to be uploaded to the province and the TTC disbanded. They've proven they are unable to do their job.

 

[robmausser]

Our streetcars have some of the dumbest spacing, with some stops being being about five or six 30m streetcar lengths apart. I suppose the LRTs would be no different.

I will give it that the TTC tried to remove about 70 stops on the network 10 years ago and every councilor in that area where they wanted to remove them protested and complained. So only like 20 got removed, if that.

 

[robmausser]

He was so right

The thing is, everything we have gotten in Toronto so far isnt even true LRT. Its streetcars with some better features. Our own streetcar network made us fail at building LRT, because we just modelled them after that. Even LA has proper LRTs that run on the side of the road, not the middle, with full transit priority and crossing arms like a train that physically stop traffic, and the train zooms by at 70kmh.

Finch and Eglinton aren't LRT, they are glorified streetcars in a ROW. And the TTC is driving them as such.

 

[Bordercollie]

Despite the same width and vehicle, the Parisian trains look much better. I mentioned in the Hurontario thread already that the Citadis vehicles feel like a downgrade on the Bombardier Flexity Freedom vehicles.

Which I don't think will help the reputation of the Finch line as rapid transit when the downtown streetcar lines are also operating nicer vehicles (at similar operation speeds...).

Who cares what it looks like when you can't even get it to work.

Also they knew it was going to snow this morning and they didn't manually clean the switches before service started. Come on. Nobody took a truck and drove the line with a broom to see if the switches are clear?

 

[APTA-2048]

Ill go one better. I think this is proof the transit system needs to be uploaded to the province and the TTC disbanded. They've proven they are unable to do their job.

That is a terrible idea and SEPTA is proof of that.