Johnny Au
Senior Member
...or play some video games on the phone while commuting. I see many people in suits playing various smartphone games during their commutes.
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Finch West Line 6 LRT
- Thread starter W. K. Lis
- Start date
crs1026
Superstar
“Oh goodie, I get to play video games for the next half hour of my day”
..... said no commuter ever.
If transit doesn’t offer time saved, its appeal is far lower than it could be. Minutes matter.
- Paul
(My favourite for the subway was Brickbreaker, but the Blackberry era has come and gone....)
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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Not great to hear about the speed.
smallspy
Senior Member
Then why do more than 70% of the TTC's ridership choose not to use a car then? Surely not every single person's commute is faster by transit than with their automobile?
Dan
crs1026
Superstar
It’s not a perfect world, certainly, but travel time has been a major grumble of current riders just about everywhere.
If we are building a new line, we should not sacrifice the opportunity to make it speedy. Both to benefit current riders and to attract new ones who are driving today. Quietly letting the design erode from 28 minutes to 38 minutes seems like regressing towards mediocrity, which is just so Toronto transit.
- Paul
Avenue
Active Member
It's way too slow for something that is billed as rapid transit. "Reliability" is a meaningless buzz word if speed isn't there and 38 minutes isn't acceptable unless we're talking about 1940s. Also why am I seeing driving time as 21 minutes? That's not even in the same ballpark.
nfitz
Superstar
Because the EA says 28 minutes ... at a whopping 22 km/hr average.
How has Metrolinx screwed this up to get to 38 minutes?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Captive ridership - just because 70% chose not to drive doesn't mean the commute itself is great.
Indeed - both travel time (through speed) and reliability are important considerations. Forget the comparison with cars for a second - there better be good reasons as to why travel times should be dragged out in and on itself
AoD
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I'm quite confused by the 38 minute number.. That's significantly slower than the existing bus service (36 minutes) and the EA number.. and is after Metrolinx made several modifications to the Transit City EA that should have sped up end to end service overall (additional grade separations).
38 minute travel time would be a 16.5km/h average speed.. That's ridiculously low given the design of the line. There are only 25 stoplights on the 11km route.. roughly one per 500m on average. A lot of them are small local streets too which if well designed could provide pretty solid signal priority to the LRT.
Wonder if the number is an error (hopefully), or if Metrolinx has simply designed some atrocious intersection signal timing cycles that have slowed the train down to a ridiculous level.
I feel for a long time Metrolinx cared very little about travel times overall, GO trip lengths have been creeping up for years. With the IBC for RER there was finally a lot of talk of making improvements to improve track speeds and travel times.. which is very exciting to me. This project is going backwards again though if the 38 minute travel time is correct.
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Rainforest
Senior Member
That 38 min figure may be out of context / not properly explained in the source.
38 min for an 11-km trip would be (11 x 60) / 38 = 17.4 kph, that's slower than the mixed traffic bus.
But if they included 10 min of terminal recovery time into those 38 min, then the speed would be 23.6 kph, and that's pretty reasonable.
Or, they could have forgotten that the line is truncated to Keele, and give the travel time estimate for the original 17-km line (Yonge to Humber College). That would be (17 x 60) / 38 = 26.8 kph. A bit high, but not impossible taking into account the relatively wide, 550-m average stop spacing for the Finch line.
38 min for an 11-km trip would be (11 x 60) / 38 = 17.4 kph, that's slower than the mixed traffic bus.
But if they included 10 min of terminal recovery time into those 38 min, then the speed would be 23.6 kph, and that's pretty reasonable.
Or, they could have forgotten that the line is truncated to Keele, and give the travel time estimate for the original 17-km line (Yonge to Humber College). That would be (17 x 60) / 38 = 26.8 kph. A bit high, but not impossible taking into account the relatively wide, 550-m average stop spacing for the Finch line.
Tuck
Active Member
Would definitely love to hear that this was an error on their part and the line will not be that slow. But I'm not optomistic.
Toronto transportation planners/engineers sure do love taking the "rapid" out of "rapid transit." I find it a bit disturbing that some people in hear are trying to defend it. If we are spending 1.2 *billion* dollars and getting no discernable travel speed increases, we are not getting good value for the money. And most importantly, it doesnt solve the problem people care most about: getting home to their families faster.
Unfortunately I'm starting to think that the anti-LRT crowd was right. I believe the technology can work (and have seen it work), but I no longer have confidence in our region's ability to pull it off. Its a shame our only attempt at light-metro ended up the black sheep of the network.
Toronto transportation planners/engineers sure do love taking the "rapid" out of "rapid transit." I find it a bit disturbing that some people in hear are trying to defend it. If we are spending 1.2 *billion* dollars and getting no discernable travel speed increases, we are not getting good value for the money. And most importantly, it doesnt solve the problem people care most about: getting home to their families faster.
Unfortunately I'm starting to think that the anti-LRT crowd was right. I believe the technology can work (and have seen it work), but I no longer have confidence in our region's ability to pull it off. Its a shame our only attempt at light-metro ended up the black sheep of the network.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Well, I don't consider Finch LRT "rapid" transit anyway, rather it will be an improved local service. Still, it is expected to be somewhat faster than mixed-traffic bus.
Let's not panic until more details emerge. IMO, the speed of 23-25 kph should be achieved automatically, just because of the dedicated lanes and wider stop spacing.
Steve X
Senior Member
Average speed listed under TTC's service summary includes congestion. It's really hard to believe it'll take 38 minutes with all door boarding. 38 minutes is the time from Kipling to Pape or even Greenwood. It's also the estimated time from Keelesdale to Kennedy on the Crosstown. I originally thought the guy may have misread 28 as 38 minutes, then they subtitled the video with 38 minutes.
28 minutes should be achievable with the Finch West configuration.
Adjei
Senior Member
This has to be a mistake. If the travel time time is the same as the current bus why the heck are spending a billion dollars on this. Then it's a waste of money. We should just stick with the current bus.
Steve X
Senior Member
Reliability will improve. I wouldn't say wasted but not as great as anticipated. The 400 area is really congested, the LRT will be able to get through there easily.
Similarly the 510 Spadina streetcar was never faster than the 77 Spadina bus on opening day. The streetcar still makes sense since ridership has doubled since the bus era and wouldn't be able to cope with current demands. Even the current streetcar operation is overcrowded leading to excessive dwelling at times.