Finch West Line 6 LRT

[TransitBart]

But if they can save money overall, I see no reason they wouldn't do it, and then blame it on the previous government. They already canceled a contract for $100 million for school rehabilitations.

That is totally false. They cancelled something which provided $100M for school rehab, but not a contract.

They intend to repeal cap and trade legislation. That program generates revenue. $100M of that revenue was directed to a fund for school physical infrastructure rehab.

Since the source of the funding was cancelled, the funding pool associated with it was cancelled.

As for cancelling contracts, the announcement was made. And a date was given. And the announcement clearly said that contracts signed up to X date would be funded. No contracts were to be signed after X date. I believe July 4. No contracts in progress have been cancelled. Clearly some planned work may have to be cancelled.

I do not agree with all that Queen's Park has done. But we must read and listen carefully to what has actually been announced and understand precisely what we have learned. We should seek only good sources of info. And we must screen out the 'noise'.

 

[micheal_can]

That is totally false. They cancelled something which provided $100M for school rehab, but not a contract.

They intend to repeal cap and trade legislation. That program generates revenue. $100M of that revenue was directed to a fund for school physical infrastructure rehab.

Since the source of the funding was cancelled, the funding pool associated with it was cancelled.

As for cancelling contracts, the announcement was made. And a date was given. And the announcement clearly said that contracts signed up to X date would be funded. No contracts were to be signed after X date. I believe July 4. No contracts in progress have been cancelled. Clearly some planned work may have to be cancelled.

I do not agree with all that Queen's Park has done. But we must read and listen carefully to what has actually been announced and understand precisely what we have learned. We should seek only good sources of info. And we must screen out the 'noise'.

Show me how this cannot be cancelled then. Right now, every single project that has not been completed, or is under construction far enough that the cancelling costs are higher than the completion costs, could be canceled.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I think that once the Eglinton LRT is put into operation, Toronto is going to fall in love with LRTs. It'll be a damn shame if the Finch LRT is cancelled. Eglinton and Finch will be a good start to filling in the network. Sheppard will have to wait until Torontonians have a local example to look to and demand it elsewhere because "Sheppard deserves an LRT!!"

They'll fall in love with the Eglinton style LRT; decent stop spacing and grade separation along a good chunk of the route. What they will not fall in love with is Finch West style LRT: too many stops to be considered "rapid," potentially horrible signal priority, and blocking of vehicle lanes. Only time will tell what actually happens but a lot of these problems could be fixed if Metrolinx would just remove some stops and the city would commit to full signal priority for the LRT.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I have said before that outside of this echo chamber not many are speaking of Sheppard. Unless Queens Park has discovered the secret to alchemy, they have plenty of bills.

Seriously. I’m not expecting much movement on transit over the next four years at all. The Province simply doesn’t have the money to spend. And transit was never a major part of their campaign. For a long time, transportation wasn’t even mentioned on their platform webpage.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That is totally false. They cancelled something which provided $100M for school rehab, but not a contract.

They intend to repeal cap and trade legislation. That program generates revenue. $100M of that revenue was directed to a fund for school physical infrastructure rehab.

Since the source of the funding was cancelled, the funding pool associated with it was cancelled.

As for cancelling contracts, the announcement was made. And a date was given. And the announcement clearly said that contracts signed up to X date would be funded. No contracts were to be signed after X date. I believe July 4. No contracts in progress have been cancelled. Clearly some planned work may have to be cancelled.

I do not agree with all that Queen's Park has done. But we must read and listen carefully to what has actually been announced and understand precisely what we have learned. We should seek only good sources of info. And we must screen out the 'noise'.

It should be noted that every time the government has canceled spending, they’ve explicitly said that they’re still going to follow through on any committed contracts. So canceling Finch at this point would be a huge departure from their previous cancelations

 

[nfitz]

I have said before that outside of this echo chamber not many are speaking of Sheppard.

I believe they signed a new master agreement recently, to replace the Stintz/RobFord/McGuinty one that called for SRT conversion to LRT, and included Finch, Eglinton, and Sheppard East.

I'd be really interested to see what that one says, as it was in negotiation for about 5 years. They made the previous one public - but I haven't seen this one.

 

[robmausser]

They'll fall in love with the Eglinton style LRT; decent stop spacing and grade separation along a good chunk of the route. What they will not fall in love with is Finch West style LRT: too many stops to be considered "rapid," potentially horrible signal priority, and blocking of vehicle lanes. Only time will tell what actually happens but a lot of these problems could be fixed if Metrolinx would just remove some stops and the city would commit to full signal priority for the LRT.

TBH Finch simply doesn't have the ridership and density to warrant the Eglinton style LRT. What the demand there really warrants is a BRT or streetcar style LRT. The latter of which is what they are getting.

Now I am an advocate for some kind of express service using the Hydro corridor to the north, be it a Transitway like what Mississauga has, or a re-imagining of GO-ALRT, but it would be an express service, stopping only at major hubs, not really for local residents of Finch West area, unless they were trying to get to North York/Scarb, etc. The on street streetcar/LRT/BRT would still be warranted however.

 

[robmausser]

Ok. Good explanation if we want to be optimistic.

I think that once the Eglinton LRT is put into operation, Toronto is going to fall in love with LRTs. It'll be a damn shame if the Finch LRT is cancelled. Eglinton and Finch will be a good start to filling in the network. Sheppard will have to wait until Torontonians have a local example to look to and demand it elsewhere because "Sheppard deserves an LRT!!"

The OCD in me is in love with the idea of a spoke and wheel network of subways in Toronto, (Line 1, Downtown Relief Line full) and then LRT's feeding into these from east and west.

It would mean converting the underground portion of Sheppard to an LRT, and emerging back up at finch west.

This is based upon no sound data, just my compulsive wish for uniformity.

 

[Streety McCarface]

TBH Finch simply doesn't have the ridership and density to warrant the Eglinton style LRT. What the demand there really warrants is a BRT or streetcar style LRT. The latter of which is what they are getting.

Now I am an advocate for some kind of express service using the Hydro corridor to the north, be it a Transitway like what Mississauga has, or a re-imagining of GO-ALRT, but it would be an express service, stopping only at major hubs, not really for local residents of Finch West area, unless they were trying to get to North York/Scarb, etc. The on street streetcar/LRT/BRT would still be warranted however.

Finch definitely deserves more than what it's getting. It deserves more of a Calgary style LRT with high floor platforms, wider stop spacing, and traffic separation with barriers. It's one of the busiest bus routes in the city with something like over 40K users per day. Considering the Waterloo LRT is going to get something like 20K passengers per day, they can spare the extra money for better separation.

 

[Rainforest]

Finch definitely deserves more than what it's getting. It deserves more of a Calgary style LRT with high floor platforms, wider stop spacing, and traffic separation with barriers. It's one of the busiest bus routes in the city with something like over 40K users per day. Considering the Waterloo LRT is going to get something like 20K passengers per day, they can spare the extra money for better separation.

Waterloo LRT will be the city's trunk route; obviously they aren't building subways. Calgary LRT is a trunk route, too.

Finch LRT, on the other hand, will primarily be a feeder route for the Line 1's Finch West station. So, the current design seems to fit the purpose.

 

[Steve X]

Waterloo LRT will be the city's trunk route; obviously they aren't building subways. Calgary LRT is a trunk route, too.

Finch LRT, on the other hand, will primarily be a feeder route for the Line 1's Finch West station. So, the current design seems to fit the purpose.

Hold it. Finch can be a feeder line but the design with more local stops is for people in the area to use it as a high quality line to get around that area.

The use of high floor platform doesn't increase the capacity. It's unappealing to have a chuck of concrete in people's sight that blocks traffic and pedestrian view. It makes it easier for people to hide and commit crimes. It doesn't appeal in a city environment. The station footprints is larger with ramps and stairs. It's more difficult for the disabled and walking difficulties to use. There's lot of reason why cities are choosing low floor. Edmonton decided to go low floor instead of the current high floor LRVs. Calgary wants to do the same with the Green Line under planning. High floor platforms doesn't make the LRT better.

 

[BurlOak]

Hold it. Finch can be a feeder line but the design with more local stops is for people in the area to use it as a high quality line to get around that area.

The use of high floor platform doesn't increase the capacity. It's unappealing to have a chuck of concrete in people's sight that blocks traffic and pedestrian view. It makes it easier for people to hide and commit crimes. It doesn't appeal in a city environment. The station footprints is larger with ramps and stairs. It's more difficult for the disabled and walking difficulties to use. There's lot of reason why cities are choosing low floor. Edmonton decided to go low floor instead of the current high floor LRVs. Calgary wants to do the same with the Green Line under planning. High floor platforms doesn't make the LRT better.

That large chunk of concrete likely makes passengers feel more safe as they wait at their stop.

 

[smallspy]

That large chunk of concrete likely makes passengers feel more safe as they wait at their stop.

I've certainly never felt like I was in a safer location being on the elevated platforms in Calgary or Edmonton. And I didn't feel less-safe on the street-level ones on Harbourfront, Spadina or St. Clair.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Steve X]

In fact it makes it less safer on the slope especially during icy conditions and increases the chance of people accidentally falling on the tracks.

If you think otherwise, check this out first
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bus-crashes-into-downtown-c-train-platform-1.829995
https://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/vehicle-drives-into-southwest-ctrain-station
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...-and-platform-in-3-separate-crashes-1.2844198

 

[BurlOak]

In fact it makes it less safer on the slope especially during icy conditions and increases the chance of people accidentally falling on the tracks.

If you think otherwise, check this out first
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bus-crashes-into-downtown-c-train-platform-1.829995
https://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/vehicle-drives-into-southwest-ctrain-station
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...-and-platform-in-3-separate-crashes-1.2844198

It looks like all examples (most notably the first and last), the harm to passengers on the platform could have been significant worse if it was not an elevated platform.