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Finch Avenue West: Opportunities for Improved Bus Service

gweed123 said:
It's not meant to be a destination, it's meant to be a rapid way to get across the city. It's a line connecting a series of nodes. And look at the employment map that was posted on the last page, quite a few of those large circles are within walking distance of the hydro corridor.
Click to expand...


The employment nodes are along Finch Aveue. The Hydro corridor is a fair distance from Finch Avenue, and people are just going to stick with the current Finch Bus, as any time savings with this bus corridor is going to be lost with the long walking distance. A hydro corridor is not an attractive place for transit riders, and posters are already pointing out problems with the corridor already.
 
Justin10000 said:
The employment nodes are along Finch Aveue.
Click to expand...

Umm, take a look at those maps that were posted a couple pages ago again. Almost none of those dots are located along Finch Ave. Most of both the origins AND destinations are located well off of Finch proper.

Justin10000 said:
The Hydro corridor is a fair distance from Finch Avenue, and people are just going to stick with the current Finch Bus, as any time savings with this bus corridor is going to be lost with the long walking distance.
Click to expand...

The corridor is 300m away from Finch in most spots. That's the same distance as between the southeast exit of Dundas Station, and the north entrance of Queen Station just south of Shuter. I'd hardly call that a "long walking distance". And if it is, you need more exercise.

Justin10000 said:
A hydro corridor is not an attractive place for transit riders,
Click to expand...

And I suppose an avenue lined with strip malls and parking lots is downright exhilerating for riders, isn't it?

Justin10000 said:
and posters are already pointing out problems with the corridor already.
Click to expand...

There are problems with every corridor. The Bloor-Danforth subway alignment had these pesky things called the Humber and Don Rivers in it's way. Does that mean we shouldn't have built it? No corridor is 100% ideal.
 
Justin10000 said:
The employment nodes are along Finch Aveue. The Hydro corridor is a fair distance from Finch Avenue, and people are just going to stick with the current Finch Bus, as any time savings with this bus corridor is going to be lost with the long walking distance. A hydro corridor is not an attractive place for transit riders, and posters are already pointing out problems with the corridor already.
Click to expand...

Finch to the hydro corridor is the same distance as walking from Front Street to King Street.

Say there was a public transit facility on Front at Bay (hypothetically). Do you think people would bother with the "long walking distance" between their jobs on King St and public transit on Front Street?

(Perhaps we should check it out for ourselves? Perhaps around 5:00pm?)
 
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gweed123 said:
Umm, take a look at those maps that were posted a couple pages ago again. Almost none of those dots are located along Finch Ave. Most of both the origins AND destinations are located well off of Finch proper.
Click to expand...
The map is diagrammatic.
If you note, those dots are simply representing trips to/from a certain block, bounded by major streets.
All of the dots are located in the centre of a major block.
 
CDL.TO said:
Tell me about it! Finch to the hydro corridor is the same distance as walking from Front Street to King Street! We all know that NO ONE bothers with the "long walking distance" between their jobs on King St and public transit on Front Street! Totally unreasonable!
Click to expand...

I'd also like to point out that the farthest spots at Finch Station are 600m away from the entrances. And surely no one parks their car and walks that far just to access transit. Even the end of the first row of parking stalls in the east lot is 300m from the entrance.
 
gweed123 said:
Umm, take a look at those maps that were posted a couple pages ago again. Almost none of those dots are located along Finch Ave. Most of both the origins AND destinations are located well off of Finch proper.
Click to expand...

It's just a thematic map showing the employment numbers. It doesn't have to be spatially correct.

The corridor is 300m away from Finch in most spots. That's the same distance as between the southeast exit of Dundas Station, and the north entrance of Queen Station just south of Shuter. I'd hardly call that a "long walking distance". And if it is, you need more exercise.
Click to expand...

It's 300m further than the current bus on Finch. What is considered "long walking distance" is subjective. After a long day, people may not be willing to walk that extra 300m. That extra 300m can eat up any time-savings.

And I suppose an avenue lined with strip malls and parking lots is downright exhilerating for riders, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Much more exhilarating than a trip in a desolate hydro strip. I do not think you have ever used the Finch West Bus, or even visitd that neighbourhood. The demand is very much local, and riders are not going to be happy with having to walk an extra 300m, just to satisfy a few long distance riders. I had to suffer with that bus for a few months years ago, and what struck me was the number of shoppers, older people, and strollers on the bus. It's very much a local route, and a busway isn't going to improve much.

There are problems with every corridor. The Bloor-Danforth subway alignment had these pesky things called the Humber and Don Rivers in it's way. Does that mean we shouldn't have built it? No corridor is 100% ideal.
Click to expand...

And yet you slag the Finch West LRT at every opportunity. :p As it stands, the Finch LRT was the best option for Finch, and now we're stuck with a bunch of options that won't really improve the overall journey times for most riders.

The busway in the corridor is just a bad idea, you can just glance at a map, and see just how many obstacles this busway will have to deal with: Large reservoir which will require a long bridge, the 400, golf course, Driftwood Park, the parking lots at Yonge St, and the fact the hydro corridor goes nowhere near Humber College. Every corridor has problems, this one has enough problems that it's probably not worth building considering the ridership might not justify it.
 
CDL.TO said:
Finch to the hydro corridor is the same distance as walking from Front Street to King Street.

Say there was a public transit facility on Front at Bay (hypothetically). Do you think people would bother with the "long walking distance" between their jobs on King St and public transit on Front Street?

(Perhaps we should check it out for ourselves? Perhaps around 5:00pm?)
Click to expand...


Actually the distance from Finch to the corridor is around 400m, depending on the location, and we're talking about different demographics here if you really want to compare the 2 locations. You're not going to find many strollers, shoppers, and older people donwtown at 5, compared to Finch.
 
Justin10000 said:
It's 300m further than the current bus on Finch. What is considered "long walking distance" is subjective. After a long day, people may not be willing to walk that extra 300m. That extra 300m can eat up any time-savings.
Click to expand...

I guess it doesn't matter much to you that a lot of the highrise apartments along Finch West are actually equidistant from the Hydro Corridor as they are to Finch proper, does it? And if you really think people won't walk 300m to access transit, you're dreaming.

Justin10000 said:
Much more exhilarating than a trip in a desolate hydro strip. I do not think you have ever used the Finch West Bus, or even visitd that neighbourhood. The demand is very much local, and riders are not going to be happy with having to walk an extra 300m, just to satisfy a few long distance riders. I had to suffer with that bus for a few months years ago, and what struck me was the number of shoppers, older people, and strollers on the bus. It's very much a local route, and a busway isn't going to improve much.
Click to expand...

Again, they won't have to! My suggestion was to build BOTH the Finch Hydro Corridor BRT, and to install HOV lanes on Finch proper. No one would be "forced" to walk to the hydro corridor if they didn't want to. If they wanted to stay on the Finch bus, they could. In fact, their trip would still be faster because of the HOV lanes. But those who wanted an express ride to bypass all the strollers and stuff could take the Hydro Corridor express bus.

And both of these projects could be done for the same cost as building the Finch West LRT. To me, the choice is pretty clear which one benefits more people.

Justin10000 said:
And yet you slag the Finch West LRT at every opportunity. :p As it stands, the Finch LRT was the best option for Finch, and now we're stuck with a bunch of options that won't really improve the overall journey times for most riders.
Click to expand...

I supported it when it was the officially funded option for Finch. Now that it isn't, it's time to talk alternatives. Did I think it was a perfect plan? No. But it was better suited for Finch than the SELRT was for Sheppard.

Justin10000 said:
The busway in the corridor is just a bad idea, you can just glance at a map, and see just how many obstacles this busway will have to deal with: Large reservoir which will require a long bridge, the 400, golf course, Driftwood Park, the parking lots at Yonge St, and the fact the hydro corridor goes nowhere near Humber College. Every corridor has problems, this one has enough problems that it's probably not worth building considering the ridership might not justify it.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to pass right by something in order to be effective. This is the difference between BRT and LRT. There can be a BRT route that runs 90% through the FHC, and then 10% on Finch itself to Humber College. Just because the Hydro Corridor busway stays completely within the hydro corridor doesnt't mean that the routes have to!
 
gweed123 said:
Umm, take a look at those maps that were posted a couple pages ago again. Almost none of those dots are located along Finch Ave. Most of both the origins AND destinations are located well off of Finch proper.
Click to expand...
??? There were tons of dots ... and the bigger ones ... along Finch. I'd suggest you look again!
 
gweed123 said:
Umm, take a look at those maps that were posted a couple pages ago again. Almost none of those dots are located along Finch Ave. Most of both the origins AND destinations are located well off of Finch proper.
Click to expand...

The dots represent areas, not points. Nearly all the origins and destinations directly border Finch Avenue.
 
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