Elimination of Wychwood Stops on St. Clair

[EnviroTO]

I think land usage around stops explain why more frequent stops are needed in some areas over others.

Well I think the benchmark needs to be the subway downtown along Bloor and Danforth and Y-U-S line south of Bloor. Most places in the city are less dense yet bus stops and streetcar stops are placed closer together.

 

[CDL.TO]

Riding the 512 today this thread popped into my mind and in retrospect, the TTC perhaps should have kept Wychwood and eliminated Vaughan instead.

 

[ShonTron]

Riding the 512 today this thread popped into my mind and in retrospect, the TTC perhaps should have kept Wychwood and eliminated Vaughan instead.

That makes a lot of sense, really. Northcliffe was the other obvious stop that should have got the axe.

Well I think the benchmark needs to be the subway downtown along Bloor and Danforth and Y-U-S line south of Bloor. Most places in the city are less dense yet bus stops and streetcar stops are placed closer together.

For a bus, it should be 1 station = 2-2.5 stops between subway station spacing here. Thinking about the original 1954 Yonge subway, if it were a bus route, I'd want to see additional stops at Gould, Gerrard, Alexander, Isabella, Church/Davenport, Roxborough, Balmoral, Lawton/Glen Elm, Merton, Manor.

If it were Bloor from Yonge, going west:
- Yonge
- Bay
- Avenue
- Bedford
- Between St. George and Huron
- Spadina
- Brunswick
- Bathurst
- Euclid
- Christie/Grace
- Crawford
- Ossington
- Dovercourt
- Havelock
- Dufferin
- Brock
- Lansdowne
- Symington
- Dundas

5.6 kilometres, or 17 stops between Yonge and Dundas, or about a stop every 340 metres. This seemed too low, but the Queen Car has 25 stops in the same stretch, or every 220 metres. Streetcars in a ROW should be about every 400-500 metres, IMHO. Every 300-350 metres feels to me about right for a local bus route, and shouldn't be any closer than that in most circumstances. Spadina between Queen's Quay and Bloor has stops every 260 metres, on the low side for even what a bus route should be.

As for useless stops city-wide:

110 has like five non-intersection stops south of the Queensway.
Ditto for the 47's Bridgeland section.
84 has a stop at the base of the West Don Bridge (east of Canyon)
116 has a stop in Morningside Park.

Can anyone think of some others?

47 on Bridgeland is a great example - there should be no more than 2 stops between Caledonia and Dufferin. A lot of long stretches of suburban road without intersections seem to have really closely spaced stops.

 

[Chuck]

Thinking about the original 1954 Yonge subway, if it were a bus route, I'd want to see additional stops at Gould, Gerrard, Alexander, Isabella, Church/Davenport, Roxborough, Balmoral, Lawton/Glen Elm, Merton, Manor.

Even that is fairly close. I think that once you reach the street with the surface transit route on it, you should never have to walk more than 250m (about 3 minutes) to the next stop. Therefore, stops should be 500m apart, which is precisely the distance between the original Yonge subway stations downtown. The Bloor stations are on average 670m apart.

 

[ShonTron]

For an able-bodied person, sure, 250 metres is an easy 3 minute walk. How about seniors? The disabled? Young children?

I can't get why some people want bus stop spacing almost as far as higher-order transit. People will tolerate wider spacing for subway stations, the trade-off being high frequencies and a fully sheltered station, and proper use of secondary entrances mitigates this further. Bus routes are much different.

I agree that many surface stops are too close together, but I think only perhaps 20-25 percent or so of the stops in the TTC network could or should be pulled. You seem to think we should cut 60-75 percent of the stops in the system, which is going overboard.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

That makes a lot of sense, really. Northcliffe was the other obvious stop that should have got the axe.

I agree that many surface stops are too close together, but I think only perhaps 20-25 percent or so of the stops in the TTC network could or should be pulled. You seem to think we should cut 60-75 percent of the stops in the system, which is going overboard.

Well actually given the popularity of Corso Italia, I'd keep Northcliffe and relocate the westbound Dufferin stop to the left side of the intersection. From Dufferin it's a large gap til Earlcourt so moving the stop works. Vaughan indeed should be Vaughan-Bathurst such that the next stop eastbound is the subway.

In terms of streetcar stop proximity, Little Italy gets a star for Clinton-Grace, literally one miniscule block apart.

 

[Chris84]

Wychwood Stops Reinstated

There will be stops at Wychwood Ave. in the new ROW.
Joe Mihevc announced this back in February and it is mentioned in this flyer posted today on the city's website: http://www.toronto.ca/wes/techservi...ir_construction/pdf/2008-04-09_open-house.pdf