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Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate

What do you believe should be done on the Eglinton Corridor?

  • Do Nothing

    Votes: 5 1.3%

  • Build the Eglinton Crosstown LRT as per Transit City

    Votes: 140 36.9%

  • Revive the Eglinton Subway

    Votes: 226 59.6%

  • Other (Explain in post)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • Total voters
    379
W. K. Lis said:
We should be calling it the Eglinton Light Rail Subway. People still think that they are streetcars, but they are not! They will not share the roadway with automobiles. After all, the Queen Street Subway was originally designed in the 1940's as a light rail system. If Boston's Green Line Subway, or originally the Tremont Street Subway, is called a subway, but uses light rail vehicles (streetcars), we should do the same here. So we should include the term Subway in the names of the Transit City lines, if they actually enter a tunnel or subway for more than two stations or stops.
In turn, this means the 1 YUS and 2 BD subways should be designated the 1 Yonge-University-Spadina Heavy Rail Subway and 2 Bloor-Danforth Heavy Rail Subway.
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Again you missed the entire point. If the Eglinton LRT operates on the street, it is a streetcar, it is simple as that. Even though it will be in its own ROW, it will still be a streetcar.
 
Coulda figured that you'd try to trot out that argument. Ignoring the fact that a "pedestrian" on the subway tracks is a little different from a pedestrian on a street...
 
nfitz said:
... 'cause a subway train has never hit someone and killed them ...
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It has happened... http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Dozens-die-as-train-hits-building/2005/04/25/1114281485529.html
 
If we aren't getting any REAL time savings from this whole LRT plan, then it's a big fat waste of many. What's the point of spending BILLIONS of dollars if it doesn't shorten anyone's trip compared to taking a bus?
 
Their only argument seems to be that it spreads light rail "access" all over the city, regardless of suitability, as if that is inherently positive.

I totally appreciate that light rail has a better transit image and will attract more people than a bus, all things being equal. If it isn't any faster or more reliable than the bus, and the inability of streetcars to pass stalled vehicles cancels out the reliability benefits of the private ROW, it's not going to attract enough people on straight image to justify spending hundreds of millions of dollars on each line.

I know the TTC hasn't come out with its final plans for the routes yet, but I want to get out criticisms before final decisions are made. If people just blithely assume that the TTC will do this right, as they have on St. Clair and Spadina, I fear that we will waste a lot of money.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
If we aren't getting any REAL time savings from this whole LRT plan, then it's a big fat waste of many. What's the point of spending BILLIONS of dollars if it doesn't shorten anyone's trip compared to taking a bus?
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It's a give and take situation though. If anything, at least Transit City has sparked media attention and some public interest in expanding transit services again. I don't honestly beleive we'll be getting every TC line as its currently proposed. I feel some orridors will demand even higher order transit (full scale subways: Eglinton-Crosstown, Sheppard East, [Overlea-Ont Sci Ctr on Don Mills Rd]), while others will garner less (Jane, Don Mills, Scarborough-Malvern). So realistically, only Finch West might wind up becoming a bona fide streetcar line with no service gangways en route making the trip faster. West of Jane for instance there's mass swaths of uninhabited areas, making a commute from there to Albion Mall or Humber College a breeze.
 
The petition was for the Scarborough Subway. I've never seen a petition for Transit City. At the first hint of replacing the RT with a subway, thousands of people were mobilized, came out to meetings, and signed petitions. After a year of Transit City, with a massive marketing campaign, pretty much nobody seems excited other than the media and certain transit fans.
 
unimaginative2 said:
Their only argument seems to be that it spreads light rail "access" all over the city, regardless of suitability, as if that is inherently positive.

I totally appreciate that light rail has a better transit image and will attract more people than a bus, all things being equal. If it isn't any faster or more reliable than the bus, and the inability of streetcars to pass stalled vehicles cancels out the reliability benefits of the private ROW, it's not going to attract enough people on straight image to justify spending hundreds of millions of dollars on each line.

I know the TTC hasn't come out with its final plans for the routes yet, but I want to get out criticisms before final decisions are made. If people just blithely assume that the TTC will do this right, as they have on St. Clair and Spadina, I fear that we will waste a lot of money.
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A few of my thoughts...
One reason for building light rail instead of just using bus service is it can offer a much higher capasity than busses are capable of, you can only have so many busses running until they start to get in their own way and slow themselves down. This may start happening on a few routs.

As has been said before; TC lines will have their own lanes, they will not be held up by traffic, vehicles will have all door loading for much shorter station dwell times. The intersection spacing on the surburban streets is much wider than on Spadina, meaning stops will be farther apart, meaning service on TC lines will not be like it is on spadina

I was reading the TTC transit city feburary 2008 update, preliminary plans show that they will build TC lines with centre storage tracks where possible(for disabled vehicles), crossover switches about every 4km, and various other subway line like features,

Yes a LRV would not be able pass another stalled lrv, but neither can subways and I dont hear people complaning about that. the centre storage tracks and crossovers should midigate the effects of this happening, and specs for new LRV's reqire that they be able to push another disabled vehicle,

but I dont trust the TTC to get it right either, so we will have to see what happens in the end
 
Voltz said:
A few of my thoughts...
Yes a LRV would not be able pass another stalled lrv, but neither can subways and I dont hear people complaning about that.
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People always make this point, yet they never seem to realize the key difference between the two. If the subway goes down, you can wait in a nice, heated station with benches and shops. If a streetcar line goes down, you're stuck standing in a cold, unheated shelter (or, alternatively, the blazing heat) with maybe one bench and nothing else for however long it may take for service to return.

I'm not invalidating your points, but I'm just saying that that specific justification is flawed.
 
Uhh...people don't complain about subways not being able to pass each other because they are reliable. How often do people wait 20 minutes for a subway? Very, very rarely...rarely enough that it is not an issue. People can rely on the subway network and 99% of the time it runs just fine.

How often do people wait 20 minutes for a streetcar? Every day! Will Transfer City be any different? The only thing I've heard is that the lines will be pretty much just like existing "LRT" like Spadina and St. Clair. The lines won't be grade separated, so they literally cannot be as reliable as the subway.
 
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