LAz
Active Member
I find LRT to be inappropriate on Eglinton. On Finch, maybe, but not on Eglinton.
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Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate
- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
I find LRT to be inappropriate on Eglinton. On Finch, maybe, but not on Eglinton.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Canada Line isn't ICTS
kEiThZ
Superstar
It ain't all that far from Bombardier's ART Mk II/ICTS...
RedRocket191
Senior Member
It uses run of the mill technology. Computer controlled trains, overhead wires and motors on board.
kEiThZ
Superstar
And LIMs if I am not mistaken....
DavidH
Senior Member
kEiThZ
Superstar
Noted. I still have my reservations though about the lack of commonality. Why would we insist on maintaining a different technology for just one line?
RedRocket191
Senior Member
If the line is big enough then the economies of scale becomes a non-issue.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Plus if it is a design/build/operate/maintain contract like Metrolinx wants we can just let the private sector worry about it instead of having to train TTC mechanics, make expensive modifications if the vehicles get discontinued etc.
nfitz
Superstar
Agreed. Look at London; despite having many lines running similiar equipment, they separate their equipment by line to the point that they've even painted some of the train interior to match the line colour on the maps!
golodhendil
Active Member
I don’t think LIM is ever really the problem. What is the technical reason that LIM is inherently unable to cope with winter weather? Can someone find news reports of significant service outages this winter in Detroit, Beijing or New York, which have worse, similar or at most slightly better winters than us? And Vancouver had a lot of snow this year, how did SkyTrain do? If anything, I say it is TTC's problem that the SRT is bad as it is.
As for the different equipment/technology issue, it is the rule among most cities in the world, rather than the exception, that different lines / sets of lines use mutually nonoperable rolling stock or even technology. For HRT alone, look at New York and London with their two, Boston with its three (one per line), Singapore with its two (third rail vs overhead), Beijing with its four (including ART), Paris with its two (rubber-tired vs steel-wheeled), and Tokyo with its, oh I don't know, 20 different types with all their different gauges and power supply and wheels and monorail and LIM and AGT.
As for the different equipment/technology issue, it is the rule among most cities in the world, rather than the exception, that different lines / sets of lines use mutually nonoperable rolling stock or even technology. For HRT alone, look at New York and London with their two, Boston with its three (one per line), Singapore with its two (third rail vs overhead), Beijing with its four (including ART), Paris with its two (rubber-tired vs steel-wheeled), and Tokyo with its, oh I don't know, 20 different types with all their different gauges and power supply and wheels and monorail and LIM and AGT.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
This is how I have always felt. Aside from cost/capacity questions (and what line doesn't have this?), I haven't heard of a problem with Bombardier ART that can't be solved through better design.
officedweller
Senior Member
The main issue for the LIM is that the gap between the LIM plate and the LIM motor on the train is only 1cm. If that gets clogged with snow, there could be problems. SkyTrain's solution to that is to continually run trains all night to keep the guideway free of snow accumulation. That's easier with an automated system than a manually driven system.
Here's is SkyTain's Snow Plan operating procedure:
http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2009/01/skytrains-snow-plan/
Canada Line cars are built by Rotem (subsidiary of Hyundai). They do not use LIMs, do use a third rail and are similar in size to TTC subway cars - 3m wide versus I think 2.6m for the Bombardier MKIIs. Like SkyTrain, the system is automated using a train control system designed by Alcatel (now Thales) - the train control system is not designed by Bombardier for either system.Thales is also providing the automation for Dubai's elevated subway line (as well as many others).
The main limiting factor for the Canada Line is that the stations have an ultimate capacity platform length of only 50m. The 2-car trains at the start of service this year will be 41m long and the platforms for most stations will be 40m. Ventilation shafts and other infrastructure typically prevent the extension of the platforms beyond 50m, and the steep hills on the route also mean that the flat level section of track required for a station is also limited to the expected 50m lengths. The saving grace if the Canada Line reaches its ultimate capacity is that the Arbutus Corridor provides a ready parallel route to Richmond when necessary, rather than overloading one line.
Recent pics here (including some interior train shots):
http://www.canadaline.ca/gallery.asp?galleryGroup=137&CurrPage=1
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Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I think one of the big issues for Eglinton is that in the relatively near future, the downtown core will expand to around that area. A subway leaves all that real estate open, but any sort of above ground rail that is not what the TTC is proposing will take up large swaths of land. Of course, they could always just tunnel in higher density areas, but still some sort of (real) Rapid Transit is needed.
Something interesting I saw in plans somewhere is to investigate uses of the Finch Hydro Corridor, and I think that above ground Rapid Transit like the Canada Line could be used very well there, as well as on an extended SRT. I just wonder why they plan on investigating the Hydro Corridor almost right after they build the Finch West LRT, when they could be providing better service at almost the same price on the undeveloped land.
Something interesting I saw in plans somewhere is to investigate uses of the Finch Hydro Corridor, and I think that above ground Rapid Transit like the Canada Line could be used very well there, as well as on an extended SRT. I just wonder why they plan on investigating the Hydro Corridor almost right after they build the Finch West LRT, when they could be providing better service at almost the same price on the undeveloped land.
nfitz
Superstar
I don't think anyone has raised the possibility of anything other than a tunnel along Eglinton between at least Keele and Laird.