Education of newcomers to Canada (moved from transport)

[rpgr]

There seems to be a bit of misinformation here about our point system for skilled labor immigrants.

First off, having a job offer is already worth 10 points but that job must be in the OAB categories (meaning skilled labor). Likewise you cannot come in as skilled labor without knowing english and/or french. The points just don't match up if you do not have a working knowledge and use of such language (and do not blame Canada or the government for being "easy to test" because we send our tests to England for marking).

As a consultant I will agree that we are too lenient in regards to refugees but that has much more to do with that small spat in which some judge struck down the safe third country act (which has just been appealed successfully recently which will hopefully cut down on false claims from Mexicans who were felling the US due to them clamping down on illegal immigrants).

Otherwise the biggest backlog is in family class. How are you gonna attract talented immigrants if you don't let them bring family in? Of course there's also a whole lot of H&C (humanitarian and compassionate cases). You have to remember that our birth rate in Canada is pretty much in the dumps. If you want to know what is the biggest problem/drain of money in our system, it's you old fart baby boomers. Baby boomers are doing 2 things wrong. First they did not have enough children (to pay for the upcoming pensions) and second, you refuse to step-aside/retire. By continuing to hold onto high paid jobs and not stepping aside, you slow the careers of up and comers which further trickles down to depressed wages for any post-baby boomers.

Basically the pyramid scheme of social security is starting to falter because too much power is situated in the hands of baby-boomers who refuse to let go. Immigration is the only answer we have if baby-boomers continue to control so much of the economy.

With this whole bail-out and crap it's continuing the stupid cycle of baby-boomers doing whatever they want on the backs of others. As far as I'm concerned, when history is written 200 years from now, I expect to say "Baby-boomers- a generation of stupidity who did nothing but blame others for everything and mortgaged the future of several generations for their own self-interest while refusing to let go of the reigns".

By the virtue of the high birth rate of baby-boomers and the low birth rate of their children coupled with the inability to relinquish power, baby boomers have effectively put so much power in their own hands that they are getting away with destroying everything and having it swept under the rug.

 

[prosperegal]

^^^

You know, that's EXACTLY why some in the Cusper generation (late 20s/early 30s...the oldest of baby boomers' children....we're not quite Gen X, but a little too old to be "true" Millennials....most of us didn't have helicopter parents who were on campus 24/7 while we were at university.) are starting their own businesses. I think that's the only way we can be truly successful.

Most Cuspers I know who're actually "doing well" in businesses they did not start are working in the same (or similar) industries as their parents (mostly doctors and lawyers)

 

[rpgr]

That's what I'm being forced to do too. Hoping that in the long run I can make it successfully as an Immigration Consultant but then again, it is not easy. The biggest problem I face is the CSIC board charging way too much for a license (it eclipses even a lawyers license). Once again, at the mercy of baby-boomers...

for the sake of irony, I saw today's dilbert strip right after i wrote this.
http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-02-24/

 

[prosperegal]

That's what I'm being forced to do too. Hoping that in the long run I can make it successfully as an Immigration Consultant but then again, it is not easy. The biggest problem I face is the CSIC board charging way too much for a license (it eclipses even a lawyers license). Once again, at the mercy of baby-boomers...

for the sake of irony, I saw today's dilbert strip right after i wrote this.
http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-02-24/

You work in the same industry as your mom or dad? Or do you mean that you're not succeeding as well as you had hoped/in the same position as your parents when they were your age?

Another thing: Educated immigrants (regardless of ethnicity/colour) fared pretty well prior to the mid 90s. My parents, who're both of Chinese descent (and therefore NOT WHITE), were able to get professional office jobs soon after they landed in Canada and bought their first home in their mid 20s. They came to Canada in the early 1970s.

 

[cacruden]

There are quite a few highly paid software developers that are recent immigrants at my place of work.

 

[rpgr]

You work in the same industry as your mom or dad? Or do you mean that you're not succeeding as well as you had hoped/in the same position as your parents when they were your age?

Another thing: Educated immigrants (regardless of ethnicity/colour) fared pretty well prior to the mid 90s. My parents, who're both of Chinese descent (and therefore NOT WHITE), were able to get professional office jobs soon after they landed in Canada and bought their first home in their mid 20s. They came to Canada in the early 1970s.

Well my first job that I'm still at is as a programmer. I've found that it does not pay as much as I want and there is very little mobility upwards so i started immigration Consulting (which is the same industry my mom works in) basically because when I started taking classes for it, the upkeep was much lower than it is now.

As for pay, I'm making pretty much the same as what my father made in his late 20's/early 30's but that is not counting inflation (just dollar figures) hence why I decided to side job Immigration consulting. However the economy coupled with the new immigration laws and increased fees for CSIC is pretty much killing me. You know the old saying "Don't quit your day job", is a good one for me. Luckily I didn't but i don't expect to turn any profit on my side job till a few things happen.

A) CSIC brings fees in line with reality
B) Government is more for immigration and putting in laws that are effectual rather than reactionary
C) Economy recovers.

I only need 2 of those 3 things to happen for me to turn a profit as I head towards trying to get to that coveted $60K mark by the time I turn 32.

 

[urbandreamer]

Reading another thread--where should a new GTA university go?--it suddenly dawned on me the solution: Immigrant U! A university exclusively for immigrants (paid by them of course to get qualified to work in Canada.

 

[cacruden]

Well my first job that I'm still at is as a programmer. I've found that it does not pay as much as I want and there is very little mobility upwards so i started immigration Consulting (which is the same industry my mom works in) basically because when I started taking classes for it, the upkeep was much lower than it is now.

As for pay, I'm making pretty much the same as what my father made in his late 20's/early 30's but that is not counting inflation (just dollar figures) hence why I decided to side job Immigration consulting. However the economy coupled with the new immigration laws and increased fees for CSIC is pretty much killing me. You know the old saying "Don't quit your day job", is a good one for me. Luckily I didn't but i don't expect to turn any profit on my side job till a few things happen.

A) CSIC brings fees in line with reality
B) Government is more for immigration and putting in laws that are effectual rather than reactionary
C) Economy recovers.

I only need 2 of those 3 things to happen for me to turn a profit as I head towards trying to get to that coveted $60K mark by the time I turn 32.

I would not say it is poorly paid as a software developer - the highest paid individual that I know of at my company is around 150K+. A fair number are 100K+.

As far as upward mobility, been a manager and more - to be quite honest - I actually like being in Software Development (though I like being in control) and leave the day to day managing to someone else.

 

[rpgr]

Reading another thread--where should a new GTA university go?--it suddenly dawned on me the solution: Immigrant U! A university exclusively for immigrants (paid by them of course to get qualified to work in Canada.

That isn't a bad idea but would Canadian employers accept credentials from such a university as readily as they would from U of T or Waterloo (not like Waterloo is that great, bright minds there but couldn't speak english to, well, land a job unless it's purely applied math and sciences for which they get highly paid)?

 

[Whoaccio]

If you want to know what is the biggest problem/drain of money in our system, it's you old fart baby boomers. Baby boomers are doing 2 things wrong. First they did not have enough children (to pay for the upcoming pensions) and second, you refuse to step-aside/retire. By continuing to hold onto high paid jobs and not stepping aside, you slow the careers of up and comers which further trickles down to depressed wages for any post-baby boomers.

In fairness to No. 2, having baby boomers retire on mass would hardly help the situation. Forcing the largest segment of the working population (and the most productive, to) to retire at the age of 65 or earlier and rely on various social security and pension programs is a major liability to the "pyramid scheme" of social security. The only way around the problems of an aging society is to make sure anybody who can work, does work. That includes immigrants, women and seniors. Maybe even students, in a more informal manner though.

In retrospect is also pretty easy to say boomers should have had more children, but that in itself carries more than a few issues. Basically you just reverse the current problems. Instead of having an epidemic of old people, you get an epidemic of babies (with the added bonus of growing into an epidemic of old people). So much of economic growth of the baby boomer period has been from hitting the "demographic sweet spot" where things like education spending could be concentrated on 1-2 children instead of 4-5.

 

[prosperegal]

In retrospect is also pretty easy to say boomers should have had more children, but that in itself carries more than a few issues. Basically you just reverse the current problems. Instead of having an epidemic of old people, you get an epidemic of babies (with the added bonus of growing into an epidemic of old people). So much of economic growth of the baby boomer period has been from hitting the "demographic sweet spot" where things like education spending could be concentrated on 1-2 children instead of 4-5.

Yeah, but many (if not most) mothers from the baby boom generation worked. Only a handful of people I went to school with had stay-at-home mothers. We were the first set (or one of the first sets) of latch key kids or had sitters/nannies take care of us while the 'rents were at work. It's not that they didn't want to have four kids, they couldn't because of the time.

I think it's the boomers who felt that they needed to give their kids luxuries (which we didn't necessarily need - by the time I was eight or nine, most people I knew had two TVs in their house and many had Nintendo (guess when I got Nintendo? I got a Wii just before my 29th birthday. That was 2008. OK, I had a computer since 1987, but Nintendo and other game consoles are different.)) and things really became more expensive starting in the 1970s or 80s. That's why both parents had to work. In the past, a single income would have bought a family of four or five a decent home, a car, groceries and perhaps even send the kids to camp or vacation. I'm not sure if that would have worked in the 80s and 90s, even if they had one TV, no cable and one car.

Question: Do you think young kids should be well-cultured? If so, how would you expose them to arts, food, etc in a single-income household without digital cable, a DVD player or high-speed Internet (and limited access to public libraries)?

 

[rpgr]

In fairness to No. 2, having baby boomers retire on mass would hardly help the situation. Forcing the largest segment of the working population (and the most productive, to) to retire at the age of 65 or earlier and rely on various social security and pension programs is a major liability to the "pyramid scheme" of social security. The only way around the problems of an aging society is to make sure anybody who can work, does work. That includes immigrants, women and seniors. Maybe even students, in a more informal manner though.

In retrospect is also pretty easy to say boomers should have had more children, but that in itself carries more than a few issues. Basically you just reverse the current problems. Instead of having an epidemic of old people, you get an epidemic of babies (with the added bonus of growing into an epidemic of old people). So much of economic growth of the baby boomer period has been from hitting the "demographic sweet spot" where things like education spending could be concentrated on 1-2 children instead of 4-5.

And that leads back to why we need immigrants (productive ones) which is one of the essential themes of this topic. In order for the boomer generation to move on we need these immigrants but it becomes a grab here, boomers don't want to give things up and hang on to the high paying jobs/money. This coupled with low birth rate means that the pension pyramid scheme does not hold up yet boomers are the ones most afraid of immigrants "taking" their jobs.

So you didn't have kids, you don't want immigrants and you don't want to make way for the future by stepping aside and sacrificing your "pension".


Boomers basically want it all and have messed things up. C;mon, what is it? Should we save our money for the important things in life? Oh wait, by doing that and not allowing the "buy now, pay later" consumerist society to thrive we get our current recession/depression.

You see the mixed messages here? Two things need to happen to actually break this recession/depression. One is for the boomers to step-aside and accept less, the other is for more immigrants to boost the pension funds so that it isn't as hard of a landing.

 

[prosperegal]

And that leads back to why we need immigrants (productive ones) which is one of the essential themes of this topic. In order for the boomer generation to move on we need these immigrants but it becomes a grab here, boomers don't want to give things up and hang on to the high paying jobs/money. This coupled with low birth rate means that the pension pyramid scheme does not hold up yet boomers are the ones most afraid of immigrants "taking" their jobs.

So you didn't have kids, you don't want immigrants and you don't want to make way for the future by stepping aside and sacrificing your "pension".


Boomers basically want it all and have messed things up. C;mon, what is it? Should we save our money for the important things in life? Oh wait, by doing that and not allowing the "buy now, pay later" consumerist society to thrive we get our current recession/depression.

You see the mixed messages here? Two things need to happen to actually break this recession/depression. One is for the boomers to step-aside and accept less, the other is for more immigrants to boost the pension funds so that it isn't as hard of a landing.

Right, but there are jobs that immigrants might not be able to take right away. Teaching, for example. Teaching philosophy varies from country to country, and a teacher who worked in, say, China, really needs to be trained to teach Canadian kids. Otherwise, it could be nightmarish (like Chinese school was for me - none of the teachers I had remotely knew how to work with Canadian children. They treated us like we were kids in Hong Kong, which doesn't work, even though all of us were of Chinese descent.)

 

[rpgr]

Right, but there are jobs that immigrants might not be able to take right away. Teaching, for example. Teaching philosophy varies from country to country, and a teacher who worked in, say, China, really needs to be trained to teach Canadian kids. Otherwise, it could be nightmarish (like Chinese school was for me - none of the teachers I had remotely knew how to work with Canadian children. They treated us like we were kids in Hong Kong, which doesn't work, even though all of us were of Chinese descent.)

Oh god, don't remind me of the nightmare that was Chinese school either ><

I just could not get it. Sure I can speak fluently (enough) but how they tried to teach (which was basically assuming your parents giving you the basics rahter than um, watching those cheesy martial arts period flicks) just did not work.

 

[prosperegal]

Oh god, don't remind me of the nightmare that was Chinese school either ><

I just could not get it. Sure I can speak fluently (enough) but how they tried to teach (which was basically assuming your parents giving you the basics rahter than um, watching those cheesy martial arts period flicks) just did not work.

I was given "the basics," yet I could never learn. If French class in "regular" school is any indication (at my Catholic elementary school, we had 20 minutes a day from Grade 1 to 6. Grades 7 and 8 got 40 minutes each day), then three hours every week wouldn't work either. Even if you hear it when you get home.