Eaton Centre needs a facelift?

[Long Island Mike]

The Toronto Eaton Centre: A good remnant of 70s Toronto!

Everyone: I read thru this topic and I had to chime in on the Eaton Centre being that it could be one of the most interesting Downtown shopping malls constructed anywhere and a place that has fascinated me with its neat design since my first visit in 1979.

Skeezix and FreshCutGrass: I very much agree with your posts-Skeezix for that post on the planning of Eaton Centre by Eaton's and FCG for the observations that you posted. One of the things I always liked was that it was so accessible by the TTC Yonge Subway at either end via the Queen or Dundas stations and many people used the TTC to get there.

I like the design of the Eaton Centre very much-I recall the multi levels and rampways as well as features like the geyser fountain,geese hanging from the atrium rafters and the Canadian provincial flags on display outside the Eaton's entrance. It always was a lively place and I felt it complemented the paralleling Yonge Street strip area well.

I recall reading that shopping malls are updated and renovated about every 20-25 years to adapt with changing tastes and the times. I feel that the design of the Eaton Centre-other then maybe changing some small features like that S end food court-should have been kept the way it was designed but with some sprucing up of obviously deteriorated features but not to change the main look or character of its design.

I agree that it was not broke and it should not have needed fixing-those recent lights being a good example. Perhaps landmark status may have worked here but maybe some are reluctant to place a 31-year old complex along with much older preserved buildings but if that is what it would have taken to keep the intended design it should have been looked into at least.

In closing the Eaton Centre is a classic example of 70s Toronto! LI MIKE

 

[Long Island Mike]

Eaton Centre:How many original 1977 stores or tenants remain today?

Everyone: I thought about the Eaton Centre some more and I wonder how many stores or tenants have been there since it opened in 1977? I realize that stores turn over,change names or enter or leave business but which ones have been there for all 31 years of the Eaton Centre? LI MIKE

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And 4) It's (as much as we would hate to admit it) a mall. And malls don't get heritage designation.

That said, there might be some rationale for not having heritage designation right now - eventually there might be a time when the parking structure on east side of the complex will be demolished or otherwise converted to other uses, or that the Sears portion of the building can be completely retrofitted to allow for an extension of the atrium northward. Beyond that, the interior changes are fairly easy to reverse.

I wonder what the original ground level of the atrium was like - has the "public space" always been that narrow, with the stores protruding into the area?

It's probably more important to document all the changes and past conditions properly and archive them - so that information would be available when the time and the will comes to change things back.

AoD

 

[adma]

or that the Sears portion of the building can be completely retrofitted to allow for an extension of the atrium northward.

Or an extension of Ryerson's biz school eastward. (Which may explain the corrugated-metal E party wall.)

I wonder what the original ground level of the atrium was like - has the "public space" always been that narrow, with the stores protruding into the area?

In some form or another, it's always been so, i.e. getting broader and brighter each vertical level upward...

 

[MetroMan]

I'm just waiting for SEARS to move out. It's gonna happen sooner or later. They already abandoned a third of their floors. Extending the arcade northbound to Dundas would make the most sense. Cadillac Fairview would probably make more money in rent if they did that. They'd get 3 stories of new tenants.

As I suggested previously, they could even build movie theatres in the unused upper floors of SEARS to compete with AMC TLS.

Y+D is their new "front door". It shouldn't be a maze like challenge to get people into the mall from that end.

When I spoke about a facelift, what I originally had in mind was cleaning things up. A new floor, nicer ceilings and a more efficient and appealing foodcourt would be the absolute essentials.

Trying to be modern with small moves like those light posts is like wearing a tie with a tshirt and jeans... it just doesn't fit.

 

[deerparker]

I agree. Sears is a disaster, especially for a flagship store. The main floor has some great features but they are not played up. They once made use of coloured lights in the ceiling, but no more and it would also appear they have a very limited - or at least untalented - visual merchandising team.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I'm just waiting for SEARS to move out. It's gonna happen sooner or later.

Considering the long-term sweatheart deal they have with CF..later, MUCH later. Unless Sears goes bankrupt, there's no way they would give up that space. Its image/marketing value as a prime flagship for the brand even if it breaks even or loses money is cheaper and more effective than any ad campaign.

Yea, CF could easily convert -1 and the street level of Sears to high market rent stores (which would kill any idea of a large flagship store on the upper floors). The second floor of Sears could be opened up to the mall as well quite easily.

It's the upper floors (3 through 7 ) that would pose a problem, but with a bit of imagination, could be great....even an improvement o the original. Hey...why not build some kind of entertainment/cultural/institutional facility ala the Seventh Floor at Eatons College street?

Hey, if you're going to essentially give away free space, why not do it for something that will give back to the city something more interesting than a soul-shattering shitster like Sears? The market rents on the three levels -1 through 2 would probably make up more than the difference in rent revenue from Sears, leaving the 5 remaining floors as gravy.

While they are at it, they could also convert some or all of the parking garage on Yonge to retail and office. TEC does not need parking. The one thing that sets TEC apart from all other giant regional malls...is that 99% of its customers arrive by transit or on foot. eliminating this parking facility would increase revenue without affecting its customer base. But I suppose the office towers at TEC still need parking, so that might be a hard sell.

But that would require CF to actually have an imagination...something that company has been devoid of for years.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Well the top two floors are already going to be converted into Sears office space..

Sears kind of had the right idea by opening mini boutiques on the ground floor of their space, but that idea looks like its falling apart bit by bit...

 

[Skeezix]

Considering the long-term sweatheart deal they have with CF..later, MUCH later. Unless Sears goes bankrupt, there's no way they would give up that space. Its image/marketing value as a prime flagship for the brand even if it breaks even or loses money is cheaper and more effective than any ad campaign.

You're right. Sears' sweet lease is an Eaton's legacy. And Sears is moving its head office staff from Jarvis Street over to the top floors of the store, so it does not look as though they are moving any time soon.

Of course, if Sears Holdings in the U.S. ever successfully acquires 100% of Sears Canada, and a drastic downsizing of the Canadian HQ follows, a bean-cruncher in the States might to decide to give up the Eaton Centre space if it is losing money. So, things could happen quickly under some scenarios....

While they are at it, they could also convert some or all of the parking garage on Yonge to retail and office. TEC does not need parking. The one thing that sets TEC apart from all other giant regional malls...is that 99% of its customers arrive by transit or on foot. eliminating this parking facility would increase revenue without affecting its customer base. But I suppose the office towers at TEC still need parking, so that might be a hard sell.

I'm not sure that's true, that the TEC does not need parking. Whereas most of TEC's customers do arrive by transit or foot (not sure where you got the 99% stat - does anyone have the correct figure?), a lot of patrons do drive. Ever tried to get a Pottery Barn rug home on the TTC? And don't forget -- TEC includes a significant office component, which is a big user of the two parkades.

Not to say that parts of the Yonge Parkade couldn't be redeveloped at some point in the future...

 

[Skeezix]

Probably a combination of (a) at 30, it's still a little too new for the "heritage argument" to sink in; (b) the property owners will almost certainly get antsy; (c) through various (mostly exterior) rebuilds, it's already had its "original integrity" compromised...

None of that precludes a heritage designation, but you're right that those are the arguments that would be put forward against the designation. (b) is especially true - CF would, I'm sure, be extremely troubled by any attempt to designate, even though a designation wouldn't necessarily tie their hands or prevent them from expanding and improving the centre.

 

[Tewder]

Its image/marketing value as a prime flagship for the brand even if it breaks even or loses money is cheaper and more effective than any ad campaign.

...but why spend all that money to establish a brand identity that is completely at odds with the overall brand identity of the chain?

It probably wont happen in the near future but a Macy's would be perfect at this location and would offer some much-needed competition to HBC.

 

[Skeezix]

...but why spend all that money to establish a brand identity that is completely at odds with the overall brand identity of the chain?

It probably wont happen in the near future but a Macy's would be perfect at this location and would offer some much-needed competition to HBC.

I suspect that unless someone like Macy's buys Sears Canada outright, there will be no further large department stores in that space ever again if Sears gives up the space (which itself is unlikely at the moment). The space is too valuable to be used for what is a dying concept (the downtown behemoth department store). However, CF could always incorporate a smaller department store(s) (please let it be Maison Simons) in a reconfigured space.

 

[Towered]

It probably wont happen in the near future but a Macy's would be perfect at this location and would offer some much-needed competition to HBC.

You say that as if the Bay were some all-powerful entity. Isn't it true that they're barely staying afloat these days? Who the hell even shops at the Bay anymore? It's hard to think of a retailer with a less cool image.

 

[Skeezix]

You say that as if the Bay were some all-powerful entity. Isn't it true that they're barely staying afloat these days? Who the hell even shops at the Bay anymore? It's hard to think of a retailer with a less cool image.

I don't think Tewder was suggesting that the Bay was powerful -- just that there are no other department store chains competing for the same market segment.

 

[TKTKTK]

I don't think Tewder was suggesting that the Bay was powerful -- just that there are no other department store chains competing for the same market segment.

Do department stores compete for any market any longer? Aren't they just retail dinosaurs?

Who in their right mind is going to shop all the floors at the Bay?