East Danforth

[Eug]

I attended one of the Kingston Road EA info meetings and was a little surprised by the comments by a group of Danforth business owners.

There is a plan (with no money behind it yet) to put dedicated transit lanes along Kingston Road as part of the rezoning-for-revitalization of Kingston Road. These would cross over to Danforth, and eventually meet up with the Victoria Park subway station (or less likely, the Main St. station).

What surprised me was that the few Danforth business owners that showed up were dead set against it. It seemed they wanted nothing to do with dedicated bus lanes, and only wanted more Green P parking or whatever.

My impression is that if Kingston Road really is rezoned for better mixed residential/commercial/retail use, the connection up with Vic Park is not only necessary for Kingston Road, but is also of significant potential benefit for the Vic Park/Danforth area, in terms of foot traffic.

 

[Marccram]

Same old same old

Dear Eug,

You should not be too surprised, business owners seem to think every person who shops at their business has a car. They never consider the other side, the locals in their neighbourhood. If the area has intensification, that would mean more customers, and more who would need to come by public transport.
Who wouldn't want more customers? But if they expect us all to drive there, their hopes are misplaced.
They need to know I won't shop at a business that thwarts the improvement of public transport access. Do you have a list of these business owners?

 

[Eug]

Do you have a list of these business owners?

No I do not.

However, in their defence, they did say their objections were based on their own local assessments of their clientele. They noted the vast majority of their clientele come via car.

The weird part of their argument though is that the purpose of the Kingston Road plan is not to look at even the near term, but mainly at the mid-term to long-term. While I could see zoning laws along Kingston Road change sooner rather than later, (within the next few years), I'd be very surprised to see dedicated bus lanes as envisioned by the Kingston Road EA within 10 years, because no monies would be set aside by the TTC and govts, until that area can demonstrate increased ridership, and that won't happen until well after significant redevelopment occurs in the region (which in turn won't happen until well after rezoning occurs).

 

[Marccram]

Chicken or egg

Interesting info Eug, in the short term though we are going to have to build the infrastructure first for the long term.

The automobile structure of our city will fade, unfortunately most who own them don't realize that yet. When the infrastructure is in place to serve the potential increase in the population, we will be well served and further zoning and development will follow.

We need public transportation now to stimulate the increase densities to support it. We can not wait ten years and say "oh we should have built something" The city was not built for the automobile, the suburbs were!

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I heard that the Roxy Cinema (formally The Allenby, Art Moderne, 1939) at Greenwood & Danforth is finally succumbing to the wrecking ball. I had always hoped that the building would survive long enough until the area could support an east end cinema. If what I was told was correct, the front of the building will remain but the rest will go and then be rebuilt into a service station or something.
So many great memories there, it's so sad to see it go.

A few memories, for those who were there in the late '70's/early '80's when the place really rocked.

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

 

[Marccram]

But in my spare time things bother me indeed

That's right a gas station, how long is that going to last?

And really if they need a gas station, couldn't they build a six storey building above it too like in Europe or Manhattan?

 

[Eug]

Interesting info Eug, in the short term though we are going to have to build the infrastructure first for the long term.

The automobile structure of our city will fade, unfortunately most who own them don't realize that yet. When the infrastructure is in place to serve the potential increase in the population, we will be well served and further zoning and development will follow.

We need public transportation now to stimulate the increase densities to support it. We can not wait ten years and say "oh we should have built something" The city was not built for the automobile, the suburbs were!

That's not what's going to happen. Representatives from the TTC were there and specifically said that the Kingston Road corridor is not their priority, and they have no money for dedicated lanes anyway. What they did say however, is that they are coming up with the transit plan for a revitalized Kingston Road now, so that if they do decide to invest in it in the future (ie. 2020 or later?) the plan is already in place, and is easily adjusted as needed. Some of these plans take 10 years or longer to solidify.

I can understand their position, as ridership there is comparatively low, and will remain low until density goes up.

OTOH, city council is keen on rezoning the area. Rezoning basically costs nothing, yet can increase the tax base through redevelopment. Right now the area is zoned for low density commercial/retail (or something like that), etc. Rezoning would change that to mid-density mixed use commercial/retail and residential. My understanding is that the recommendation will be to allow buildings up to around 11-12 stories in some areas along Kingston Road. Whether or not city council approves that or not is up in the air, but they're keen to do so. I could see that happening by 2010.

So, even if that happens by 2010, and developers start building shortly afterwards, I really can't see ridership increasing that much for a decade.

That's right a gas station, how long is that going to last?

And really if they need a gas station, couldn't they build a six storey building above it too like in Europe or Manhattan?

A gas station with a theatre front? Hmmm...

P.S. Kinda off topic, but re: gas stations... It depends on how they decide to zone the area. Gas stations can be zoned out of existence, sort of. I believe that an existing gas station can stay there as long as they want, and the owners can sell it as a gas station too. However, if the city were to decide it didn't want gas stations there, they could zone the area in such a way to exclude gas stations. While any existing gas stations would be grandfathered, as soon as it gets changed to something else, it can never be a gas station again (unless then change the zoning laws yet again).

OTOH, I believe the city wants to keep East Danforth more retail/commercial than what they're envisioning for nearby Kingston Road, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Marccram]

What's next

My point is that the City and the TTC need to move fast to get the infrastructure in place. Then things will follow.

As to the gas station at Greenwood and Danforth, I'm not against a gas station per se but can they not build above it with condos or apartments to intensify the area since there are two subway stops nearby. Is this not capitalism, make a few more bucks on top of the fuel charge? Do they not care about city building and being a good corporate citizen or is it just the bottom line?

 

[Eug]

My point is that the City and the TTC need to move fast to get the infrastructure in place. Then things will follow.

As to the gas station at Greenwood and Danforth, I'm not against a gas station per se but can they not build above it with condos or apartments to intensify the area since there are two subway stops nearby. Is this not capitalism, make a few more bucks on top of the fuel charge? Do they not care about city building and being a good corporate citizen or is it just the bottom line?

Does the area even allow such building? Even if they did I personally wouldn't buy a place over a gas station. Would you?

 

[Marccram]

I believe so

Sure a fifth floor condo with a 1200 sq ft terrace facing southwest overlooking the City of Toronto.
As long as all the conditions for containing toxic vapours are met, and I'd ensure on that!!! That's the way I am

Nice chatting with you i'm at marccram4444@hotmail.com

 

[digi]

Sure a fifth floor condo with a 1200 sq ft terrace facing southwest overlooking the City of Toronto.

Wow, you'd pay a million to live over a gas station?

 

[Marccram]

Hardly a million

Maybe 379

 

[Marccram]

Where I live

I already live next to a fire station, one street south of Danforth, over the subway entrance to Greenwood yards. If I can get a nice view that's a bonus!

 

[Marccram]

Sorry

Forgot to mention the fire station is the gas depot for other stations in the area.

 

[Marccram]

Urban Architecture

Here's how