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Dufferin Street: Eliminating the jog

The advantages in using one ways downtown:

For once, LRT having their own right of ways wouldn't be a issue.

Imagine if King and Queen were one ways downtown...
Between Roncevalles and Don Valley Parkway

This would mean

-less delays on street cars and less congestions for cars
-They could actually build a ROW for both streetcars


I do see the issue on using Landsdowne as a one way because it ends at Queen Street...
 
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Automation Gallery said:
The only one street i can think of south of Bloor st. down to Lakeshore thats close by is Lansdowne/Jameison Ave.
That might work as a one way northbound street from Lakeshore to Bloor
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Have you looked at that street and see what happen between Dundas and Bloor??

There is no street in this area that can offer the same type of traffic flow north as a one way street vs. the south Dufferin.

Trying to put an ROW on this road will require the removal of ""ALL"" on street parking. It will require stop to be further apart with ""RAMP"" platforms that are share by everyone. Moving the stops further apart is no big deal that are not over 300m.
 
nfitz said:
That position makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Bathurst streetcars don't particularly get stuck in traffic; so why would Dufferin? Bathurst streetcars run faster than the Spadina streetcars, which are on their own ROW.

TTC has stated many, many things in the past that change.
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Well, of course Bathurst cars are going to run faster if there's less overall density it has to serve per day along that corridor. The main problem that causes at least 95% of delays on the 510 is the traffic lights. Due to the complete absence of signal priority (except at a few minor intersections), streetcars regularly spend a long time waiting for traffic lights - a problem exacerbated by the far-side stops at most intersections, and the left-turn cycle for cars which precedes the green light. In many other systems, streetcars have such effective signal priority that they almost never stop at traffic lights.

Both Spadina (45,000) Dufferin (43,300/21,651ppd south of Bloor segment only) are totally different animals from Bathurst, as they yield higher average daily riderships. What Dufferin really needs is new east-west rapid transit alleviators to taper off some of its passenger loads, meaning people will become less reliant on the 29 bus for long-haul commutes. The customer base would be disadvantaged by any mode incapable of clearing intersections in the allotted time before the traffic signals turn to red. Not to mention the disruption to motorist's ease of utilizing the corridor with all the requisite driving/U-turn/parking lane restrictions. Maintaining the bus service just may actually be progressive thinking, believe it or not.
 
Yes, I mentioned that in the reply prior to this one. I think that if every intercepting east-west "concession" artery had some form of rapid service along it, the pressure being placed on N-S bus feeders would go down. So for the 29 bus alone that equates: WWLRT at the CNE, DRL at Queen, more frequent 506 service at College, Bloor-Danforth subway, St Clair Transit City, Eglinton-Crosstown Line, Lawrence West BRT?, and Wilson subway. Under such circumstances, the Dufferin bus would function primarily to bridge the gaps in-between these rapid services (i.e. mainly for short-distance trips).
 
If the Waterfront West LRT is built in stages, the portion between Dufferin and Union Station could go all the way up Dufferin to Bloor. Unfortunately, the only location for a loop at Dufferin Station is at the south-west corner of Dufferin and Bloor. Else, a crossover track would have to be used, and using the double-ended TC LRV's instead of single-ended streetcars.
 
Or they could be ambitious, expropriate 15 feet of Dufferin Mall's parking lot, and have the road widen to allow a portal to an underground tunnel running a block north to Dufferin Station. You could have a direct underground connection from the streetcar to the subway, and could use crossovers with the double-ended LRT's so as to not even need a loop. If the portal was far enough south you might even have room in the tunnel to have a Dufferin Mall Station, and then the mall could boast direct transit access
 
nfitz said:
That position makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Bathurst streetcars don't particularly get stuck in traffic; so why would Dufferin? Bathurst streetcars run faster than the Spadina streetcars, which are on their own ROW.
Click to expand...

Spadina has more than three times the ridership of Bathurst and more stops. I would expect the new streetcars and payment system will improve things significantly on Spadina because a large percentage of the travel time is spend waiting for people to board.

In deciding whether or not to run a new streetcar line in mixed traffic the question is "what does it give us that a bus couldn't?" A bus can navigate traffic and a streetcar cannot. It doesn't make much sense to spend all that money building a new line and then buy vehicles that cost more than 5 times the cost of a bus only to have it stuck behind a bunch of cars.
 
Ansem's ideas for Queen and King are basically what I've supported for years. It seems to me that creating streetcar ROWs is the way to go, and the only way to do that is to make the streets one-way. They tried to do this on King a few years ago and their hearts were in the right place, but reducing the street to one lane alternating one-way directions every block with no on-street parking would have killed the streets. A more feasible alternative would be to make both streets one way, with two lanes on one side dedicated to the streetcars, and the other half of the street used as one traffic lane and one parking lane.

Anyone who's lived in Montreal can tell you that the pedestrian vitality of streets has nothing to do with whether they're one- or two-way. Saint Laurent or Sainte Catherine are just as successful as Queen Street (or more).
 
I've suggested in the past that a ROW could be achieved by using Dufferin and Landsdowne, each with a single line one way ROW down the middle or off to the side of those streets. Dufferin could lead north, Landsdowne could be south. Both streets are close enough to eachother and both have busy bus routes that could benefit from a high capacity LRT in a ROW.
 
MetroMan said:
I've suggested in the past that a ROW could be achieved by using Dufferin and Landsdowne, each with a single line one way ROW down the middle or off to the side of those streets. Dufferin could lead north, Landsdowne could be south. Both streets are close enough to eachother and both have busy bus routes that could benefit from a high capacity LRT in a ROW.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it's appropriate to ask someone to walk 600 metres to reach a locally oriented stop. People want to be dropped as close to their destination as possible and then board the return trip as close to their destination as possible. Richmond & Adelaide are 100 metres apart, and I think that's the furthest away two-way transit traffic should be.

Looking at Hamilton, their LRT plans call for two-way transit traffic on one-way streets because of the distance issue (among other reasons).
 
Personally, I'm just glad they're finally going ahead with this so that all the traffic won't have to feed up and down Gladstone. I find it continually frustrating how often the Queen streetcar gets stuck behind a green light because the one car ahead of it is turning left, and has to wait through a cycle of red because traffic wouldn't permit the car to turn sooner.

I swear, streetcars would be so much faster if it wasn't for all the cars on the road.
 
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