DRL routing. Where would you put it?

[gweed123]

To me it all depends on how effectively GO Transit electrification is implemented. If electrified GO within Toronto diverts a significant amount of riders from the TTC onto GO, then the DRL can be built along Queen with closer stop spacing, as it will be acting as a more local line.

If however electrification doesn't get as many riders as hoped, the DRL may need to be built along Wellington in a more express-style subway, with fewer stops.

Until we see for sure how GO electrification will alter trip patterns, planning a route may be a bit premature. I think a lot of the assumptions that people have on here about which route will be best may be turned on their heads once GO actually serves Toronto properly.

 

[M II A II R II K]

They could extend the roads and the subway under them at the same time.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yes, the street does end there, but remember that underground subways could easily be routed onto or under the rail corridor. The same cannot be said however for Richmond or Adelaide which end in the vicinity of Niagara surrounded by dense developments. The line would have to be at least 3-4 stories deep in this area just to avoid building foundations

Also, any boring tunnels do not have to follow any roadway and can go down 3-4 or more stories down. Only at the station and emergency stairway neighbourhood where there is access from ground level down to the track level is there a requirement for visible construction of stations.

 

[Electrify]

I voted Queen Street, but also selected Richmond/Adelaide and the rail corridor just because the costs to build it along Queen might be too high today.

 

[dunkalunk]

Deep bored tunnel stations are much more expensive than ones closer to the surface and significantly increase travelling time, thereby making the construction of stations prohibitive. With a rail corridor largely paralleling the corridor, any routing benefits from having a deep bored tunnel would be negated by cost, thereby making the rail corridor more cost-effective if you are looking at 2km station spacing.

 

[Palma]

Yes, the street does end there, but remember that underground subways could easily be routed onto or under the rail corridor. The same cannot be said however for Richmond or Adelaide which end in the vicinity of Niagara surrounded by dense developments. The line would have to be at least 3-4 stories deep in this area just to avoid building foundations

To me it makes more sense to have a subway running along a street that people work / live on / retail, etc. Thats why Yonge Line is also very successful vs the Sapdina line that one cannot find walking along any major street

 

[car4041]

To me it makes more sense to have a subway running along a street that people work / live on / retail, etc. Thats why Yonge Line is also very successful vs the Sapdina line that one cannot find walking along any major street

Actually, you can find the Spadina line walking along many major streets (Eglinton, Lawrence, Wilson, Sheppard). Its relative lack of success is more because it's surrounded by an expressway and mostly lower-density car-oriented neighbourhoods. I don't think the presence or absence of a street exactly following the subway line is a make-or-break factor; the context of each station is more important. (Consider the non-grid routing of chunks of Montreal's metro, for example.)

 

[Palma]

What i mean is you need to be walking along Lawrence to find it. Then Wilson the same thing. And how many people are really walking along Wilson near the subway. Not many. I go by there a lot. If you get out will you know exactly on Wilson you are? The same thing for Lawrence. Even at St Clair the station is again midway between Bathurst and Sapdina. I kept thinking why not have put it at the Bathurst intersection. And defintely its because it is built along an expressway which is the same thing as not being built along a major street running north south like Yonge or the Bloor line which runs east west along Bloor St. Even Yorkdale. I mean you need to drive there to get to the subway or somehow find it by walking through the mall. i use to live near there and would be 20 walk going through the mall and getting to the subway. If you do not see a subway stop as you walk along a street you will not search for it. Subways need to run along streets not expressways or highways, etc.

 

[Rainforest]

Actually, you can find the Spadina line walking along many major streets (Eglinton, Lawrence, Wilson, Sheppard). Its relative lack of success is more because it's surrounded by an expressway and mostly lower-density car-oriented neighbourhoods. I don't think the presence or absence of a street exactly following the subway line is a make-or-break factor; the context of each station is more important. (Consider the non-grid routing of chunks of Montreal's metro, for example.)

Higher patronage of the Yonge line compared to Spadina is partly due to the bus route structure. Nearly all E-W buses north of Bloor terminate at a Yonge subway station. As a result, every major station on Yonge is fed by both eastern and western buses, whereas Spadina subway stations are fed by western buses only.

 

[Rainforest]

What i mean is you need to be walking along Lawrence to find it. Then Wilson the same thing. And how many people are really walking along Wilson near the subway. Not many. I go by there a lot. If you get out will you know exactly on Wilson you are? The same thing for Lawrence. Even at St Clair the station is again midway between Bathurst and Sapdina. I kept thinking why not have put it at the Bathurst intersection. And defintely its because it is built along an expressway which is the same thing as not being built along a major street running north south like Yonge or the Bloor line which runs east west along Bloor St. Even Yorkdale.

The detrimental effect of the expressway has a role around Lawrence West, Yorkdake, and Wilson stations, but definitely not St Clair West. The expressway does not reach there (it ends at Eglinton).

 

[Palma]

Thats another reason that I did not think of and makes sense.

 

[andrewpmk]

I think that the relative lack of success of the Spadina line is more to do with the lack of development near the stations. The Yonge line has tons of development near Yonge/Eglinton and North York Centre due to it being a rich neighbourhood; the Spadina line north of St. Clair West runs through mostly poor neighbourhoods which are undesirable for developers, also the proximity of the expressway reduces property values. The only significant concentration of condos along Spadina north of St. Clair West is at Downsview, but this is near Downsview Airport, is a fairly so so neighbourhood and has some of the lowest condo prices in the City of Toronto.

I think that the DRL ought to eventually run up Don Mills Road to Finch. The 25 Don Mills bus is always packed to the gills, it runs through a mix of rich and poor neighbourhoods and has a fair amount of recently-built development along it. It would serve as a Yonge line reliever, as well as a DVP reliever without having the problem of running right in the median of an expressway like Spadina.

 

[Palma]

But there are also retail, restaurants not just condos. You are not just relying on people who happen to love in the area. . You walk and shop along Yonge and will encounter subway stations along the way - its a destination area. Lawrence, Wilson are having condos built around there - on Wilson more smaller in height than Lawrence. TTC has the Yorkdale parking lot on leased from Yorkdale and when that lease expires what are the chances Yorkdakle will lease it gain. Then all those people relying on parking at Yorkdale and taking the subway to work - what happens with that. The line would have been better served running it along Dufferin since that where the 5 northern stations are basically located or 5-7 min walk.

What I have seen on these discussion boards - that the DRL cannot just run in an area where it is used for people to go and return from work and then no one uses it throughout the day or evening for anything else basically. Which does make sense, to me anyway.

 

[Tulse]

the DRL cannot just run in an area where it is used for people to go and return from work and then no one uses it throughout the day or evening for anything else basically.

Which is why I think Queen or King makes the most sense, and the notion of running it through the rail corridor, or treating it as an express line, won't work.

 

[js97]

Politics aside, Rocco Rossi did have an excellent idea that could be implemented right away... Not sure why there hasn't gotten any traction:

Turn the existing GO line from Main St. to Union to Dundas west to a 'DRL'. Minimal costs as the infrsstructure already exists, would just need to build a few outdoor platforms along the way.

Why it hasn't been implemented.. no idea!