DRL: Pitching DRL to the Mayor. Seriously.

[unimaginative2]

Back on to the topic of the DRL, I wish that they could be talking about it now while Union Station is already under contstruction. That station would be one of the most expensive components of the line, but that cost would be slashed if it were built as part of the second platform project.

One of the biggest justifications for the Downtown Relief Line was the extension of the financial district into the railway lands. Now that it is finally happening, it will further contribute to the route's attractiveness. Also note that when the project was first studied in 1985, the SkyDome and ACC weren't even built.

A subway along the rail corridor, costing a mere pittance, would be a powerful catalyst for development in the West Don Lands and East Bayfront. If a route along Lakeshore east of the Don to Pape were taken, it could bring about the re-development of the port lands years before it otherwise would occur.

Tell Miller that there's no way that a streetcar could get people from the Port Lands or East Bayfront to downtown in less than 25 minutes, while a subway could do it in about 7.

 

[roch5220]

I wish that they could be talking about it now while Union Station is already under contstruction.

Hey

One of my biggest beefs with cityplace, was the lack of consideration of mass transit. I have stated this before atleast once, that they city should have pushed as a concession from Concord was for them to build the tunnels, or atleast partially fund the tunnels (along with they city and TTC) so that they could be built in anticipation of the DRL western extension and while the land was already being dug up. The extension could have been aligned to take into consideration the large amount of people living cityplace, continue along towards the CNE grounds, before using the existing unused rail line that they city has saved and head it into etobicoke.

A 3rd rail could have been added to one of the CN lines running from union to the skydome, and boom, you are there.

Hence, I'm not surprised that they never thought of any savings of modifying union to handle both a future DRL along with the second platform. Since Union will be such a large future cost, I think they should investigate connecting the DRL with the Queen subway station, and then proceeding westward from there before heading into etobicoke or NW. You would save money on tunnelling less south, as well as looping back north towards etobicoke or NW (as you would be going along queen).

 

[socialwoe]

^ Great post!

Hence, I'm not surprised that they never thought of any savings of modifying union to handle both a future DRL along with the second platform. Since Union will be such a large future cost, I think they should investigate connecting the DRL with the Queen subway station, and then proceeding westward from there before heading into etobicoke or NW. You would save money on tunnelling less south, as well as looping back north towards etobicoke or NW (as you would be going along queen).

As great as a DRL would be along Front-rail corridor, it can't compare to a Queen Line. If both corridors got upgraded it'd open the downtown up completely. Not knocking the developing harbourfront nodes but the existing nodes along King-Queen-Dundas benefit far more from a line directly serving their area. Also in bringing up the DRL has anyone here seriously considered a downtown loop line? All the benefits of both Queen and DRL incorporated. Both 'ends' could easy well connect with LRT/BRT going up Don Mills and Weston corridors.

 

[cacruden]

As great as a DRL would be along Front-rail corridor, it can't compare to a Queen Line.

Problem with Queen street is there are a lot of people that don't want to see Queen street "changed". Towards the west, most of the density increase, office buildings are farther south than Queen Street. I could actually see maybe a line down Adelaide Street on that side, since it would be the least disruptive location to do construction on (having entrances come up to King and Up to just south of Queen). Additionally many people would still just transfer at Queen and go down one stop since the office buildings are more accessable from the underground around King.

On the East side, King/Front would be a greater location for the origination or the downtown line -- whether it went up to Queen and along Queen or nearer to the south -- would depend heavily on future development plans.

 

[allabootmatt]

These are all great ideas, folks. I am aiming to have the memo out to the mayor by Monday.

I would do this myself, but since I don't have access to ArcMap or any similar mappping software, could someone interested please overlay a rough DRL on the map of density from the RTES? I think that's probably the single biggest selling point of the proposal. Let's make this happen!

 

[EnviroTO]

Are you pitching both the Don Mills side and the Weston corridor side of the DRL?

 

[socialwoe]

Problem with Queen street is there are a lot of people that don't want to see Queen street "changed".

Dang NIMBYs, don't they anything better to do :rolleyes ?

I could actually see maybe a line down Adelaide Street on that side, since it would be the least disruptive location to do construction on (having entrances come up to King and Up to just south of Queen).

Anywhere in that general vicinity would be fine, though at some point it would have to be along Queen venturing beyond the core. Even DRL can do this, you know like a 2 for 1 special, central waterfront gets DRL but the rest runs along Queen into the suburbs.

Additionally many people would still just transfer at Queen and go down one stop since the office buildings are more accessable from the underground around King.

True but a Queen/Bay stop+PATH may hit CBD/CFD quicker and more efficiently though.

On the East side, King/Front would be a greater location for the origination or the downtown line -- whether it went up to Queen and along Queen or nearer to the south -- would depend heavily on future development plans.

The St Lawrence area could really do for some revitalizing and I think a subway here would so do it!

Are you pitching both the Don Mills side and the Weston corridor side of the DRL?

He may have a stonger case going with just one side for now rather than both. Since Weston is more directly linked he might want to fight for an extension to Eglinton/Black Creek.

 

[M II A II R II K]

reply

Maybe it could be elevated between Adelaide or Richmond so it would be like the Chicago L train coming downtown.

 

[cacruden]

Re: reply

^ I lived in Chicago -- I would not recommend it.

Worst case scenario, maybe they can do it at ground level and have limited access via underground stations (go underground, pay, and come up to a centre platform). The LRT trains would have to have control of intersection lights though.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"overlay a rough DRL on the map of density from the RTES? I think that's probably the single biggest selling point of the proposal."

And that homes + jobs density map is, I think, based on 1996 census stats, so all the zones at or south of King have gone way up.

 

[Ed007Toronto]

And that map is based on a population of 2.7 million by 2021. I think we'll see a lot more people by then. Closer to 3 million I would think.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The "dot = 500 persons or jobs" scattering is also random within each zone...if the dots were placed in the real spots, the Don Mills corridor in particular would stand out even more (instead of having the dots dispersed into the parkland that some of the zones contain).

The DVP/Don Mills corridor within the 416 north of Bloor also contains 75,000 jobs just within 6 specific employment zones (Leaside, Bermondsey, Wynford, Duncan Mills/Lesmill, Consumers, and Gordon Baker). Most of these jobs would be very accessible via the DRL, and this excludes all other jobs (schools, retail, whatever). So, really, the Don Mills line would be close to over 100,000 jobs in the 416 and, through a Viva connection to the north, be close to another 100,000 jobs up the 404 in York Region.

 

[Degnaw]

But VIVA really wants to terminate at Victoria Park... The subway station just doesn't exist yet.

 

[EnviroTO]

If there was fare integration and VIVA could get benefit from the potential ridership at Seneca College and along Gordon Baker they might prefer terminating at Don Mills.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Why would VIVA terminate at VP & Sheppard? There's no good reason to do so. If they're not gonna go to Fairview, they might as well go straight down to the future subway station at Warden & Sheppard. A DRL up Don Mills to Finch would provide the perfect VIVA connection in the hydro corridor next to Seneca, especially if VIVA eventually upgrades to rails.