Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study

[W. K. Lis]

A subway (LRT or HRT) does not have to follow a street or railway, when its underground. When bored, they can go deep enough to under sewers, gas lines, and buildings. Only at the stations would they need the extra expense of digging up to provide access to the surface. Decide where the stations or areas of high density are needed and then build from there and connect the dots.

 

[dunkalunk]

You're right that a bored tunnel does not have to follow existing right of ways, but there is an added cost to having deep stations. This added cost is one of the reasons that Ottawa opted to instead for a tunnelled LRT alignment along Queen Street instead of deep boring under the foundations of office buildings. With a King, Wellington, or even Front alignment, you'd still hit major activity nodes without having to worry as much about mitigating the risk to existing building foundations.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I hate to say it, but just one DRL may not be enough. They may have to wraggle with CPR to reopen summerhill and build a Queen street GO Tunnel(option 5A-2) Toronto needs to get ahead rather then catch up IMO.

 

[ShonTron]

Because Georgetown and Barrie trains would terminate at the new Bathurst station and not continue to Union.

PDF | Union Station 2031 and related planning studies

That will be amazing! Imagine: An Oshawa to Malton trip, via Osgoode! Instead of going down one set of stairs and up another between platforms at Union, it will involve down one stairs, walk for a bit, through a turnstile, down another set of stairs, on a subway, down more stairs, on another subway, out of that subway, up one stairs, through another turnstile, up a second flight of stairs, into a new station, then another set of stairs.

Now that's regional transit!

Okay, there are other cities where you have to do that. London for example, or New York (between Penn Station and Grand Central), or Chicago, but those are the results of multiple private companies building networks 100-150 years ago. The point is that this is Union Station.

Damn it. This is the worst possible way to get our much needed DRL.

 

[sixrings]

That will be amazing! Imagine: An Oshawa to Malton trip, via Osgoode! Instead of going down one set of stairs and up another between platforms at Union, it will involve down one stairs, walk for a bit, through a turnstile, down another set of stairs, on a subway, down more stairs, on another subway, out of that subway, up one stairs, through another turnstile, up a second flight of stairs, into a new station, then another set of stairs.

Now that's regional transit!

Okay, there are other cities where you have to do that. London for example, or New York (between Penn Station and Grand Central), or Chicago, but those are the results of multiple private companies building networks 100-150 years ago. The point is that this is Union Station.

Damn it. This is the worst possible way to get our much needed DRL.

Seriously how rare is this trip????? You have to build transit around what is consistant not what is once in a blue moon. The once in a blue moon mentality gives birth to crazy ideas like well what if someone wants to take a subway from wonderland to union... Oh wait we are already almost building that...

 

[Markster]

Oshawa to Malton isn't that ridiculous (there's almost certainly some Oshawan working near the airport), but for your sake, how about you consider Weston to Main? The same lines, but now entirely within the 416.

The Bathurst proposal doesn't seem fully thought out. They talk about using more through-routing to solve some congestion problems, but in the same document, they're proposing terminating Barrie and Georgetown a subway stop away from downtown, and building a subway to make up for that.

 

[pman]

How is it we study so much and build so little?

 

[nfitz]

How is it we study so much and build so little?

??? There's more transit currently under construction (shovels in ground) in the GTA than the rest of the nation combined. Your always going to study more than you build ... isn't that a good thing?

 

[noctis]

??? There's more transit currently under construction (shovels in ground) in the GTA than the rest of the nation combined. Your always going to study more than you build ... isn't that a good thing?

You call this a good thing? Right now only the Spadina Line is ACTUALLY under construction, the Sheppard Line at this point is dead, the Eglinton LRT won't be completed until 2020 (might be even later, you never know...), the DRL is messed up, and there is no subway/LRT lines running directly to the airport. I don't know what the heck Metrolinx is thinking but whatever they are planning now isn't called transit planning. You want to see transit planning, take a look at the Taipei MRT for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei_Metro#Future_expansion; 10 projects are planned and most are already under construction and some are almost finished and ready for revenue service. This is why I think building in phases is much better than doing it all at once. It can also save some money for other projects.

 

[Kitsune]

Apparently Metrolinx has rejected studying the DRL as previously planned. They have decided that only Union station congestion is an important issue, and have come up with a plan to shift GO traffic to another station at Bathurst or Yonge, with a subway running from Exhibition Place to Woodbine Station via a winding route from Front up to Queen then to Bloor in the East.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1091627

Here is an image of the map provided
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/24/95/4755674645e6acfb393cd4c733d0.jpeg

I almost think if they build that... two lines are needed: one that uses that alignment, but along front / eastern instead... and another following the traditional DLR route... but along Queen instead. Further... the front / eastern alighnment would be express with 2km spacings... while the queen would be local with closer stops.

 

[Palma]

It makes no sense to have the DRL along Queen St. Its only a 20-25 min walk from Queen St to to Bloor St. The DRL should run along Front St. This way its close enough to the Queens Quay neighbourhood. Queen St has the Streetcar which should stay. I do not know why people keep saying Queen St should have the DRL. Besides along Front St the DRL would hit Union Station which makes sense.

 

[Palma]

A subway (LRT or HRT) does not have to follow a street or railway, when its underground. When bored, they can go deep enough to under sewers, gas lines, and buildings. Only at the stations would they need the extra expense of digging up to provide access to the surface. Decide where the stations or areas of high density are needed and then build from there and connect the dots.

. A subway does not have to follow a street but it makes the most sense when it does. Compare the Yonge line, which follows a street, compared to the Spadina line. One of the reasons the Spadina line been under utilized is because it does not follow a street. You could be walking along Yonge St and will eventually hit subway stops along major intersections. You cannot say the same for the Spadina. You know when you get off at a Yonge subway stop you are along Yonge St. Get off at Wilson (if you are not used to it) and someone would assume they would be at Wilson and Spadina. It makes the most sense to run it along a street so that it attracts people just walking about. You cannot just be walking along the Spadina line and hope to run into a subway stop.

 

[LordWanker]

This may sound silly but how about utilizing the Gardner underbelly for an elevated LRT route( although it will only run from Coxwell to Spadina perhaps joining @Union?)?
The clearance should be sufficient and it is just a matter of creating the elevated platforms and re-enforcing the Gardner overpasses to support the extra load. Plus it would be much faster than the existing streetcar and relieve some of the volume off the Danforth subway line.

 

[Rainforest]

The problem is that their alignment, hopefully preliminary, seems to be based solely on GO connections at the expense of serving local residents or possible extensions. Little is done to relieve the overburdened streetcar network (especially in the West End), and the Woodbine terminus seems too far east to intercept enough East End traffic on its way to Yonge (especially given that the Eglinton line will already funnel those furthest East away from the Bloor line altogether). I would hope that they'd, at the very least, reconsider where it will connect on Danforth and consider a small extension in the West at least to Dufferin.

The Woodbine connection is strange indeed, and I don't even know what gave them such idea. The eastern leg of DRL should go to Pape / Danforth, that route would be both more effective (in relieving Yonge) and cheaper (since it is shorter).

 

[borgo100]

going with both 4b as well as 6b would be the best, Toronto would go from 1 major transit/rail hub to 3!