"Downtown Core Line" - Possible Alignments?

[Darren B]

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Operating_statistics.jsp

504 King was busiest in 2007 with 47 300 riders daily.

If you look back at my justification for the Queen. I used the 504 and 501 in my comments from day 1. The DRL running on Ronce to Queen then up to Pape would mirror the path of the 504. Both lines run articulated cars during rush hour. A King DRL would run under Queen in the east from River to Pape. The two variations, either Queen or King would both utilize Queen in the east, and both would attract steady ridership in my opinion.

 

[Paleo]

What does a subway station at Lakeshore and Cherry accomplish that a GO station at the same location (after electrification) doesn't?

Is the 5,000/hour capacity of the LRT insufficient to act as a feeder for the Portlands?

 

[nfitz]

What does a subway station at Lakeshore and Cherry accomplish that a GO station at the same location (after electrification) doesn't?

Well, it let's people change from the GO to the subway at an alternative location to Union - which seems to work well at Vendôme station in Montreal, despite being able to also change later at Lucien-L'Allier.

 

[Darren B]

Well, it let's people change from the GO to the subway at an alternative location to Union - which seems to work well at Vendôme station in Montreal, despite being able to also change later at Lucien-L'Allier.

GO riders on Lakeshore east already have that option at Danforth station, and Georgtown at Kipling. I think the question being asked is; what does the DRL do under the Portlands that a GO train wont do? Why run both transit lines in the same area?

 

[nfitz]

GO riders on Lakeshore east already have that option at Danforth station

There's no connection between TTC's Main Station and GO's Danforth station. It's a couple of blocks, about a quarter-mile walk.

What's needed is a transfer station between the two lines. At Vendôme, the tunnel that goes under the railway platform, simply keeps going a few extra metres where it enters the main hall of the Metro station.

 

[Darren B]

There's no connection between TTC's Main Station and GO's Danforth station. It's a couple of blocks, about a quarter-mile walk.

What's needed is a transfer station between the two lines. At Vendôme, the tunnel that goes under the railway platform, simply keeps going a few extra metres where it enters the main hall of the Metro station.

Quarter mile??? WTF???? Its like a block and a half at most!!!! With both stations offering wheelchair access. Its literally one stop apart on the 506. With that one stop being the tiny token usless stop outside the subway station. Its as seemless as it should be. If one cannot change lines there then they have no business riding public transit. Riders who expect a marble tiled PATHesque tunnel whereever they are walking or transfering should just wake up to the reality that sidewalks exist for a reason on the surface level.

 

[CapitalSeven]

From Main Station to Danforth Station is .2 miles as the crow flies, .25 miles walking from the station area of one to that of the other. Simple tools like Google Earth will give you this information in seconds. Why this resistance to information?

 

[cacruden]

^ Resistance is futile - laziness rules!

 

[MisterF]

Personally, I would support a Docklands type of solution for the Portlands. However, the city has made no mention of this. Heck, they don't even dedicate a Transit City line to an area that our entire civic leadership views in the same light as Canary Wharf. And I suspect some of that silence has to do with the fact that they thought the DRL would serve that district...that's why the city preferred the Front alignment. I fear for what would happen to the Waterfront if their plans prove inadequate or blunted by a northerly shift of the DRL. I might be willing to support a Queen DRL if the city was more forthcoming on how it plans to serve a district that will have more jobs and residents than half the towns in this country and most districts in this city.

Transit City was meant to be implemented immediately. I think the Port Lands were left out because, let's face it, when Transit City is built out the Port Lands will still look much like they do today. The East Bayfront and West Don Lands still need to be built out before the Port Lands take off. At the very least, the Harbourfront East line will extend into the Port Lands when it's needed. That will be the main transit line for the area, not the DRL, since it will go into the heart of the neighbourhood. At best a Port Lands LRT could connect with the DRL at Cherry St.

I know it'll never happen, but I like the idea of a fully grade separated LRT to the Port Lands because there's so much land to built it on that it could be done relatively cheaply. And it could be extended pretty far east.

 

[rbt]

Total rides per day is one thing, and rides/km is another, but peak loads are something else entirely. Steeles East is probably one of the busiest peak load routes but won't show up on many homemade ridership lists because turnover along the way approaches zero (therefore, low total ridership) and because the route is quite long (therefore, low riders/km).

Steeles will benefit from the Spadina line extension effectively cutting the route into 2.

in 1998/1999 I was one of the people who rode Steeles past York U to Finch simply cause it was easier (fewer transfers). I got the impression a large number of people on the bus were doing the same at the time.

 

[nfitz]

Quarter mile??? WTF???? Its like a block and a half at most!!!!

Google's reporting about 400 metres. 1,600 metres in a mile. So that's a quarter-mile. And that's not including the two-flights of stairs out of Main station, and then back down the hill towards the GO station. Looking at an airphoto, it's 3 blocks. Keep in mind that Main Station is almost a block north of Danforth - the subway runs under Harris Avenue, not Danforth. So Harris to Danforth - 1 block. Danforth to Stephenson 1 (larger than usual) block. And your still the distance of another block.

Do you think I make this stuff up? It's not a convenient connection. Doable yes, but not exactly what one would design to encourage transfers.

 

[kEiThZ]

Darren. Have you seen the links we've posted or will you continue to cherry pick your arguments?

 

[Darren B]

From Main Station to Danforth Station is .2 miles as the crow flies, .25 miles walking from the station area of one to that of the other. Simple tools like Google Earth will give you this information in seconds. Why this resistance to information?

Get off Google earth for a second and ride the 506 (which is on my doorstep) and ACTUALLY go and see Danforth GO station. From there walk the 2 minute walk from there to Main station. All the Google Earths in the world dont deny actual trial and error. Why this resistance to actually trying it out for yourself?

 

[Darren B]

^ Resistance is futile - laziness rules!

Laziness is hiding behind your PC and using Google Earth instead of actually going to Main station and switching to Danforth GO station.

 

[kEiThZ]

Get off Google earth for a second and ride the 506 (which is on my doorstep) and ACTUALLY go and see Danforth GO station. From there walk the 2 minute walk from there to Main station. All the Google Earths in the world dont deny actual trial and error. Why this resistance to actually trying it out for yourself?

Laziness is hiding behind your PC and using Google Earth instead of actually going to Main station and switching to Danforth GO station.

So they are using google earth to get an objective measure of the distance. What of it? Should the TTC develop it's master capital plans now according to which stations are accessible by Darren? I am sure there are stations that you don't use regularly in the TTC that you would be quite willing to pass judgement on.

What may seem like a 2 minute walk to you may be much worse for a senior citizen, a person in a wheel chair, a single mother carrying a kid and groceries, etc. And as citizens of this great city, they have just as much a say in demanding accessible services as any self-important downtowner, and all the more so if they are folks who regularly have to do that changeover. I for one, will not condemn efforts to make our transit system more accessible and easier to use.

I strongly suggest that you debate objectively, using evidence to back up your assertions. The one string on your banjo is starting to wear thin. You are not going to win anyone over with arguments that you know better since you ride the streetcar. If we are using that path, then for me personally, nothing seems crowded since I've ridden a train during rush hour in Mumbai. 'Trust me' is not a slogan that the TTC should be using for billions of dollars worth of transit plans. The last time they did that, we ended up with the SRT.