Despite what Ford says The Streetcar in Toronto is here to stay.

[GraphicMatt]

Agreed, especially when it isn't posted on the front of the streetcar. I waited for over 20 minutes on Queen West at 10pm one night for a streetcar to go to Lansdowne, and he decided on-route to short turn just after Ossington. I had to wait another 10 minutes for the next streetcar to show up, which was of course then jammed full. This delay caused me to miss the Lansdowne bus by about 30 seconds, so I had to wait another 20 minutes for that bus. All and all, a trip that should have taken me 20-30 minutes took me an hour and a half. Would have been faster to walk.

They'd be less annoying if there wasn't such a shortage of available vehicles right now (the accidents last week didn't help).

They need to better promote the NextBus service too. I feel like I've been a walking & talking Arrival Sign the past few weeks letting everyone at my streetcar stop know how long it will be before the next car arrives. People think I'm magic.

 

[gweed123]

They'd be less annoying if there wasn't such a shortage of available vehicles right now (the accidents last week didn't help).

Don't think they'll be much relief on that front until the new streetcars arrive.

They need to better promote the NextBus service too. I feel like I've been a walking & talking Arrival Sign the past few weeks letting everyone at my streetcar stop know how long it will be before the next car arrives. People think I'm magic.

I feel like in general the TTC doesn't do a very good job of promoting itself. That and they seem to always be on the trailing edge of implementing technology innovations (I mean seriously, they didn't even get the next train feature at all subway stations until early this year). I know they're short on money, but seriously, it doesn't take THAT much work to hire a few guys to write a decent iOS app. Heck, that would likely even turn a profit for the TTC. Sell it for a couple bucks on the app store. Rumour also has it that the next iPhone will have an RFID chip included. Imagine being able to download a Metropass app to your phone, and then use your phone as your Metropass to enter the system.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Agreed, though in the case of NextBus there's already a great iOS-optimized interface that uses GPS to pull arrival times for the stops closest to you.

The really shameful thing is that the TTC has been so reluctant to promote NextBus (and the live maps of vehicle locations particularly) because they didn't want to make it easy for people to see how poorly they manage their streetcar routes.

 

[gweed123]

Agreed, though in the case of NextBus there's already a great iOS-optimized interface that uses GPS to pull arrival times for the stops closest to you.

The really shameful thing is that the TTC has been so reluctant to promote NextBus (and the live maps of vehicle locations particularly) because they didn't want to make it easy for people to see how poorly they manage their streetcar routes.

Haha, that's true eh? Allowing everyone to see the fact that there's a 15 minute gap, followed by 4 streetcars bumper to bumper would probably not go over well. Although the flip side of that is it would make it easier on the people who have access to that info, as they could wait the extra 30 seconds and get onto the less busy streetcar.

 

[junctionist]

If the overhead Hydro is removed from the street your single thin wire is still supported by lots of other wires and -quess what- lots and lots of poles.

What are you talking about? For streetcars, there's one small wire running parallel with the street in each direction, supported by a perpendicular wire across the street from the pole which holds up the streetlight. That's trivial and no real problem at all, since the facades along the side road would be much more visible. Presumably, the massive timber pole and generic street light would be phased out and replaced with an attractive, non-utilitarian design as well. So you'd only have the attractive pole for street lights, which would also hold up the perpendicular wire. It would be so much cleaner and more attractive. Trees would be able to grow more freely and it would be much easier and safer to restore building facades.

 

[allabootmatt]

Indeed. The idea that the reason many Toronto streets are covered in ghastly wires is streetcars is completely bogus, as a quick look at Spadina and St. Clair -- which have (mostly) buried Hydro -- will demonstrate. Similarly, I encourage all to check out Street View images of tram lines in, say, Leipzig or Munich. I challenge you to find a single rotting wooden pole and box transformer. Toronto's pole-and-wire situation has everything to do with a City-owned utility that pays zero attention to the aesthetic outcomes of its actions, and a municipal government and populace that don't seem to care. Streetcars are neither here nor there.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Utility cuts and general respect for the streetscape is one area where Ford's bully tactics might be well put to use. I was on Bloor Street the other day and it looks like there are already ugly utility cuts with hasty patch jobs. It's embarrassing.

 

[PL1]

I waited for over 20 minutes on Queen West at 10pm one night for a streetcar to go to Lansdowne, and he decided on-route to short turn just after Ossington. I had to wait another 10 minutes for the next streetcar to show up, which was of course then jammed full. This delay caused me to miss the Lansdowne bus by about 30 seconds, so I had to wait another 20 minutes for that bus. All and all, a trip that should have taken me 20-30 minutes took me an hour and a half. Would have been faster to walk.

Note that the driver/operator doesn't decide when to short-turn; it's the transit control. However, it still sucks when that happens.

 

[lafard]

Indeed. The idea that the reason many Toronto streets are covered in ghastly wires is streetcars is completely bogus, as a quick look at Spadina and St. Clair -- which have (mostly) buried Hydro -- will demonstrate. Similarly, I encourage all to check out Street View images of tram lines in, say, Leipzig or Munich. I challenge you to find a single rotting wooden pole and box transformer. Toronto's pole-and-wire situation has everything to do with a City-owned utility that pays zero attention to the aesthetic outcomes of its actions, and a municipal government and populace that don't seem to care. Streetcars are neither here nor there.

They undergrounded the wires on St Clair while doing the streetcar project. Actually, I believe they did the undergrounding while the RoW was held up in the lawsuit. Don't be decieved; half a block either side of St Clair and there's Mr 6-tierl Hydro Pole waiting there for you.

I presume Spadina was similarly done when they built the RoW, I've seen pictures of frontierland poles in the past.

In most cases, yes, a single span wire between streetlights is enough, though there will always be spiders-webs at intersections. If nothing else, go take a look at a grand-union for trolley-buses and our wires don't seem so bad.

 

[Dan416]

Get Frank Lloyd Wright's "An Autobiography", read the Prelude, and you'll get an idea why I resort to such immaturity.

I'll get right on that. Right now. In fact I'll get on that yesterday. No, no. Two years ago. In fact, let me get on that before I was born. No, no, before Frank Lloyd Wright was even born. Even better, I'll go before the Big Bang.

 

[Paleo]

If the overhead Hydro is removed from the street your single thin wire is still supported by lots of other wires and -quess what- lots and lots of poles.

Guess what? The community had the choice but decided against burying the hydro wires on Roncy.

 

[Eug]

not the single thin wire for streetcars.

If they were only single thin wires they'd be fine. But they're not. I'm thinking of those webs of wires at intersections.

I would argue that traffic blocks streetcars, which sound like the chicken and the egg arguement, but think about how many people are on a streetcar and how many people are in the handful of cars being blocked, I would think the ratio would be around 30:1 or greater. I have a hard time feeling sorry for people in single occupancy vehicles trying to commute down queen st, especially at the expense of hundreds of locals on transit.

Except the same issue is claimed by some to be lessened by buses, which is why these people will ask why we have streetcars instead of buses.

But they do usually know the ones that will get them from their home to the subway station.

Those are the ones I know. The ones I don't know are the problem. As GraphicMatt says, most people haven't committed the city's bus routes to memory. Often we have a better idea where streetcars are going because the tracks are there in plain sight, and there aren't an enormous number of them. But yeah, short turns suck.

 

[paraone]

and how many buses do you need to equal the capacity of one streetcar? then there is also the issue that streetcars are perceived as permanent infrastructure which increases land values where a bus in not going to add anything to the nabe which in turn adds nothing to your land value.

 

[spider]

how many buses do you need to equal the capacity of one streetcar?

In the peak periods 3 busses are required to replace the capacity of 2 streetcars, for the rest of the day 1 bus easily replaces 1 streetcar. These are the TTC's numbers. not mine.

then there is also the issue that streetcars are perceived as permanent infrastructure which increases land values where a bus in not going to add anything to the nabe which in turn adds nothing to your land value.

I doubt if the presence of any Transit vehicle enhances property values to any significant degree. If they do why is such a large percentage of these Legacy routes lined with 2 and 3 storey 75 year old buildings too many of which are vacant to project the vibrant neighbourhood streetscape that we are told to expect?

 

[Eug]

and how many buses do you need to equal the capacity of one streetcar? then there is also the issue that streetcars are perceived as permanent infrastructure which increases land values where a bus in not going to add anything to the nabe which in turn adds nothing to your land value.

Like I said, in some instances I prefer streetcars, and when I took public transit more, I took streetcars when I had the option.

However, to ignore the fact that many people hate streetcars on busy downtown streets is foolish. Just to have a super-pro-transit stance is to miss the point of view of much of the voting public.

And furthermore my original comment was just to say that if someone says that streetcars are no slower than buses, that's not a strong very endorsement of streetcars. BTW, please don't bring up the Toronto-streetcars-are-tourist-attractions argument either.