Despite what Ford says The Streetcar in Toronto is here to stay.

[Dan416]

Obviously $6 billion isn't correct. Not in current dollars ... perhaps in 2020 dollars by the time it would get built ...

But even assume it was. $6 billion for 13 km is still cheaper than $5 billion for 10 km.

So why are you claiming the Sheppard subway cost more to build than a NY subway under a river to NJ?

You're saying Yonge to Downsview + Don Mills to STC = 13 km?

Oh and it wasn't a flat $6 billion. They said it was $6 billion MORE than the cost of the SELRT. How much is the SELRT costing us right now? You have to add that in there.

I just don't understand how a subway along Sheppard can be approaching $500 million per kilometre.

 

[drum118]

TTC made money on these 30 cars going to SEPTA considering they saw close to 23 years of service on TTC network.

SEPTA is in the process of selling a number of single and double end PCC's today.

It would be nice to have a few more PCC's floating around than the 2 we have today.

With FORD at the Helm now, are the PCC's to disappeared before he leaves offic in 2014?

 

[nfitz]

You're saying Yonge to Downsview + Don Mills to STC = 13 km?

Something like that ... let's see ... Downsview to Yonge is about 4.5 km, and Don Mills to Scarborough Centre is about 8 km. Add them together is about 12.5 km. Not sure your point here.

I just don't understand how a subway along Sheppard can be approaching $500 million per kilometre.

It can't be. Either the person who claimed it does is wrong, you didn't understand what they meant, or it's in some inflated 2020s dollars or something.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Here's an idea: maybe this argument is dumb as hell if no one can find a source for the 6 billion dollar figure.

 

[Dan416]

Here's an idea: maybe this argument is dumb as hell if no one can find a source for the 6 billion dollar figure.

If you like, go to CBC's website and listen to the podcasts for all their Radio 1 shows in the last week. It was around 4 pm (either a little before or after, as I was driving home from work). So whatever's on at that time. It wasn't someone from CBC. But it was a guest from a group that loves streetcars. And they said the figures came from the TTC itself.

 

[nfitz]

And this makes sense to you?

 

[GraphicMatt]

Heard on CFRB the other day that the TTC says the Eglinton line will travel up to 300 kilometres per hour and after 7 p.m. all the trains will be cosmic trains with cool lighting and dance music. I gotta say this sounds ridiculous.

 

[Long Island Mike]

SEPTA acquires TTC PCC cars after Woodland Shop fire October 23,1975...

Back in 1976, due to a fire in a Philadelphia carbarn, SEPTA purchased thirty used PCC cars from the TTC at $12,500 each. The cars were re-gauged by TTC crews at Hillcrest Shops from Toronto gauge (4′ 10-7/8″) to SEPTA gauge (5′ 2-1/4″) at an additional $4,000 each. At the time, the trolley cars on the SEPTA system were equipped with wheels at the tops of the trolley poles to receive power. The Toronto cars arrived with slider-shoes on the poles instead of wheels, and it was decided to retain sliders on the cars as an experiment. During 1976 it was decided to convert all SEPTA surface rail vehicles to the slider-shoe type of power collection. See this link for the complete story.

While the CLRV's would start arriving in 1977 and revenue service in 1979, the TTC still had a surplus of PCC’s. Today, the TTC has a shortage of streetcars due to cutbacks in the last years of the 20th century. When accounting dictates policy at the TTC instead of operations, we end up in the situation today where we don’t have enough vehicles to operate the streetcar network efficiently.

WKL: I remember reading about the SEPTA Woodland Car Shop fire on October 23,1975...that destroyed a number of SEPTA's PCC cars causing a car shortage...

I found this link at this site I also belong to:
www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=68577

I noticed the pic you posted of the long-gone #6 Trolley route which ended service in the early 80s...what SEPTA was eventually successful in doing was ending all Trolley (Streetcar in Toronto) routes with the exception of the Sub-Surface routes serving Center City-the 10,11,13,34 and 36 routes. Those 5 routes use the early 80s vintage Kawasaki LRV cars. The 15 route was later revived with rebuilt PCC cars with modern amenities like air conditioning...

This should answer some questions concerning these TTC PCC cars that went to SEPTA in Philadelphia...LI MIKE

 

[W. K. Lis]

Meanwhile, while people will be talking about buses versus streetcars, there is discussions in financial circles that on Talk of $100 Oil Returns as Options Jump Most in 3 Months: Energy Markets. See bloomberg.com for the article. Currently, a barrel of oil goes for $84.00, click on this link for the latest oil price.

Better to move away from vehicles that burn oil and conserve.

 

[Dan416]

And this makes sense to you?

Don't be ridiculous. If it came directly from the TTC I'd at least accept that it was the TTC. But it came second-hand from a Streetcar lover. So of course I doubt her. LRTistas aren't to be trusted.

 

[nfitz]

So of course I doubt her.

Then why do you keep posting it again and again, without one word of written proof on the Internet about these numbers, which we don't even know if you heard or understood correctly.

And enough with the stereotyping ...

 

[Dan416]

Then why do you keep posting it again and again, without one word of written proof on the Internet about these numbers, which we don't even know if you heard or understood correctly.

And enough with the stereotyping ...

I heard and understood perfectly well. Whether she was reliable or not, that's the question.

 

[RedRocket191]

I heard and understood perfectly well. Whether she was reliable or not, that's the question.

And this is why hearsay is inadmissible in court.

 

[Dan416]

And this is why hearsay is inadmissible in court.

All right, but the hearsay isn't mine, it's the CBC's.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The first Low-Floor, Electro-Hybrid Streetcar, Arrives in U.S. for use on in Charlotte N.C.. Nice of them to ignore the low-floorstreetcar that was used in Vancouver during the Olympics, but I think they mean the first one that can use either an overhead catenary or battery.

Didn't the Charlotte Area Transit System (CATS) get Rob Ford's memo. After all, he is the foremost expert on public transit in Toronto... not. Or maybe the power behind the throne does... not.

From www.masstransitmag.com:

LFX-300, North America’s First Low-Floor, Electro-Hybrid Streetcar, Arrives in U.S.

Kinkisharyo International, L.L.C. announced the prototype of its LFX-300, a 100 percent low-floor, electro-hybrid streetcar specifically designed for North America, has arrived at the Charlotte Area Transit System (CATS) in Charlotte, N.C. today. The first streetcar of its kind in North America, the LFX-300 will now be tested by Kinkisharyo’s engineers on the CATS light rail line, leading up to the official public unveiling of the LFX-300 on January 21, 2011 in Charlotte.

“We are grateful that the City of Charlotte and the Charlotte Area Transit System has extended the courtesy to host the North American unveiling of our LFX-300,†said Rainer Hombach, vice president and general manager of KinkisharyoInternational. “This is a very exciting time to introduce a 100 percent low floor, electro-hybrid streetcar, particularly in cities that value sustainability and community development. From coast to coast, municipalities are quickly realizing the many benefits of the LFX-300, including lower overall life cycle costs, lower energy usage and emissions, greater access and comfort for all riders, and an unparalleled ability to preserve sensitive and historic areas by operating streetcars without overhead catenary wire,†Hombach added.

The LFX-300 is a hybrid vehicle in that it is propelled by either overhead electric catenary or on-board battery power. In battery powered mode, it uses electricity stored from regenerative braking and by charging the batteries while running on catenary, minimizing total power consumption. As an electro-hybrid vehicle, it does not emit fumes that contribute to smog and greenhouse gasses. The LFX-300 has been specifically designed for North America and is compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act, Buy America and NFPA-130. “KINKISHARYO is the number one supplier of low-floor, light-rail vehicles in North America,†Hombach said. “We are confident transportation officials and riders alike will enjoy the value and benefits of the LFX-300’s low-floor, energy-efficient design engineered for tomorrow’s sustainable cities,†Hombach added.

KINKISHARYO has been delivering urban transit solutions in the United States for nearly three decades. Its custom-engineered, light rail vehicles can be seen in many metropolitan centers, including Seattle, Washington; Phoenix, Arizona; Jersey City, New Jersey; San Jose, California; Dallas, Texas; and Boston, Massachusetts. KINKISHARYO’s parent company, The Kinki Sharyo Co. Ltd., and its affiliates, have been delivering rail solutions around the globe since 1920, including recently announced rail projects in Cairo, Egypt and in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.