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Debate on the merits of the Scarborough Subway Extension

Is there any chance that the original 3 stop plan would be cheaper than the current 1 stop plan? Along the same McCowan corridor but at-grade or elevated instead?
 
Voltz said:
Again, no, Eglinton East was supposed to be funded with the One Stop Stubway plan from the same money.
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Never said it was? The SMLRT design called for a transfer at Kennedy. And this is a nice improvement
 
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Voltz said:
No it didn't, nothing prevented through running in the previous plans, nor are there even any plans that show what the LRT platforms will look like now. And one of the many warts of the SSE, is that is has gobbled up funding that should have been used for several other lines, like Eglinton East.
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None of those lines were of long-term importance to the RTES reports issued prior to Transit City; only rapid transit to Malvern via the Town Centre and Progress Campus was. In our struggle to give past Mayors a legacy of note, we'd blindly ignore the 75,000 projected new and existing users of the SCC station, all just to go back to the failed plan to route LRT in the SRT corridor - which because costs aren't in stasis, could itself cost over $3 billion?

A route like Eglinton East should not be elevated to higher status than having a tunneled line through Scarborough's downtown core. Not when it's ridership projections are far lower than SSE by comparison.
 
Leo_Chan said:
Is there any chance that the original 3 stop plan would be cheaper than the current 1 stop plan? Along the same McCowan corridor but at-grade or elevated instead?
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That would still require significant tunneling, and elevation is still expensive (just not as expensive as tunneling). I’d expect that to still be more expensive than the underground one-stop
 
Hopkins123 said:
None of those lines were of long-term importance to the RTES reports issued prior to Transit City; only rapid transit to Malvern via the Town Centre and Progress Campus was. In our struggle to give past Mayors a legacy of note, we'd blindly ignore the 75,000 projected new and existing users of the SCC station, all just to go back to the failed plan to route LRT in the SRT corridor - which because costs aren't in stasis, could itself cost over $3 billion?

A route like Eglinton East should not be elevated to higher status than having a tunneled line through Scarborough's downtown core. Not when it's ridership projections are far lower than SSE by comparison.
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There's going to be a tunneled line through Scarborough's downtown core? Scarborough has a downtown core?!

By 'downtown core' are you referring to the GTA's 4th biggest mall or are we talking about a Scarborough in a different country?!
 
syn said:
There's going to be a tunneled line through Scarborough's downtown core? Scarborough has a downtown core?!

By 'downtown core' are you referring to the GTA's 4th biggest mall or are we talking about a Scarborough in a different country?!
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City Centre is correct. But I think you just wanted to take the opportunity to bash the area instead of correcting with an appropriate term
 
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Leo_Chan said:
Civic Centre. Scarborough is not a city, it’s a borough.
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Metropolitan Centre seems to be the latest term being used for Centres connected by subway.

Civic Centre is a specific place not the overall area but I agree City Centre should no longer be valid
 
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Towered said:
I love how they're desperately trying to sweep the ballooning costs under the carpet.
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Sweep ballooning costs under the carpet, delay the project a bit more. Rinse and repeat.

Remember, politicians don’t actually need to build transit to get votes. They just have to be real good at talking about building transit !
 
syn said:
There's going to be a tunneled line through Scarborough's downtown core? Scarborough has a downtown core?!

By 'downtown core' are you referring to the GTA's 4th biggest mall or are we talking about a Scarborough in a different country?!
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Don't be facetious. Obviously you know what I meant. SCC is an urban growth centre like it or not. Islington /Bloor, Cowell /Danforth, Yonge/Empress, and soon Keele /Eglinton all have subways to their doorsteps; no need to shortchange Scarborough's core.
 
Hopkins123 said:
Don't be facetious. Obviously you know what I meant. SCC is an urban growth centre like it or not. Islington /Bloor, Cowell /Danforth, Yonge/Empress, and soon Keele /Eglinton all have subways to their doorsteps; no need to shortchange Scarborough's core.
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SCC has had decades to become an urban growth centre and it hasn't really transpired, despite a direct rapid transit connection. It hasn't happened at Kennedy nor Warden, despite the presence of subway stations.

Scarborough doesn't have a downtown core to tunnel through. If it did, there'd be more stops. This is a 6km extension to a mall, one that can't accommodate additional stations (between STC and Kennedy) once it's done. All the hyperbole in the world (McCowan being the Yonge Street of Scarborough, STC being a downtown that justifies a subway station, etc.) won't change that.

If you truly value connection, growth and access than a looped LRT would be by far the best solution - direct rapid transit access at major destinations (STC, UTSC, Centennial, etc.) and a transfer-free ride to the Yonge Line.

Most importantly, it would put rapid transit access in walking distance of a greater number of residents, making transit within Scarborough a far more convenient proposition. If you truly believe Scarborough has a 'downtown' then an LRT that facilitates inter-Scarborough travel makes much more sense than a 6km extension to Kennedy with nothing in between.
 
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syn said:
SCC has had decades to become an urban growth centre and it hasn't really transpired, despite a direct rapid transit connection. It hasn't happened at Kennedy nor Warden, despite the presence of subway stations.

Scarborough doesn't have a downtown core to tunnel through. If it did, there'd be more stops. This is a 6km extension to a mall, one that can't accommodate additional stations (between STC and Kennedy) once it's done. All the hyperbole in the world (McCowan being the Yonge Street of Scarborough, STC being a downtown that justifies a subway station, etc.) won't change that.

If you truly value connection, growth and access than a looped LRT would be by far the best solution - direct rapid transit access at major destinations (STC, UTSC, Centennial, etc.) and a transfer-free ride to the Yonge Line.

Most importantly, it would put rapid transit access in walking distance of a greater number of residents, making transit within Scarborough a far more convenient proposition. If you truly believe Scarborough has a 'downtown' then an LRT that facilitates inter-Scarborough travel makes much more sense than a 6km extension to Kennedy with nothing in between.
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If the infrastructure is inferior and connections are poor then of course the travel patterns will be shaped to deter certain paths. If you have a disjointed, standalone, and screetching transit stub to the Centre then of course people wont be overly interested to invest when similar areas are seamlessly connected to the subway.

The subway and SmartTrack will be the starting points to provide efficient public transit to the core which is necessary as the bottle neck for even drivers has risen exponentially with the growth surrounding and the loss of lanes in some areas due to introduction of new bike lanes. (Ex. Woodbine north of Kingston rd). Local LRT and BRT routes are a seperate issues and should never have been lumped. But that is the debate we were dealt.


As for SCC it has done very well given the RT, lack of an ongoing detailed Master plan and recent transit confusion. . It will flourish at a far greater rate with the subway and master plan especially with the improved connectivity.
 
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