Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TheTigerMaster]

My thoughts on the alignment:

SRT1/SRT2: Runs in the current SRT corridor. SRT2 appears to run in the corridor originally planned for Scarborough LRT. This would likely be the cheapest of all options, but usage would likely be the lowest of all options, since it runs right on top of SmartTrack. Things to consider are:
- Kennedy Station will have to be reconfigured in such a way that the tracks run north/south (right now they run east/west)
- The elevated section near Ellesmere would need to be rebuilt.
- Fitting stations for both SmartTrack and the Line 2 extension at Lawrence East and Ellesmere would be a challenge.

Midland: This stip is almost all low density residential and commercial. There's not much in the area to attract usage. Ridership on this segment will likely be low due it proximity to SmartTrack.

Bellamy/Markham: Almost all low density industrial and industrial/commercial. Costs would be significantly higher than the current McCowan alignment. However, it is far enough east that it might have the usage to justify a subway (probabl

 

[innsertnamehere]

the original council plan is still the best one in my opinion.

The options further east likely will do nothing to help ridership as their additional length will reduce time savings of the service, dropping ridership probably at a roughly equal rate that it would pick it up by moving further east.

 

[salsa]

the original council plan is still the best one in my opinion.

Even better was the previous original council decision to build the LRT.

 

[nfitz]

the original council plan is still the best one in my opinion.

Spend $190 million on refurbishing the SRT to handle Mark II cars, and only interrupt service for 8 months?

 

[nopacnone]

Anyone else find it astonishing that money is going into anything other than a DRL?

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Someone should tell the people doing the EAs to consider aligning SmartTrack to reach STC. I know I am being partial to the idea cause we came up with it on here, but I honestly don't think it is a bad option (all the B-D extension options look like bad options with SmartTrack in the picture now) and it should be studied.

I mean STC is the same distance to downtown Toronto as Square One in Mississauga anyway. A commuter rail type of line like SmartTrack would better serve them than a subway OR LRT would.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Spend $190 million on refurbishing the SRT to handle Mark II cars, and only interrupt service for 8 months?

I am discussing subway alignments, not technology options.

 

[nfitz]

I am discussing subway alignments, not technology options.

You referred to the original council plan with no other indication of what you were referring to.

 

[innsertnamehere]

original council plan of the McCowen alignment with 3 stops that they approved and highly publicized in october of 2013.

 

[nfitz]

original council plan of the McCowen alignment with 3 stops that they approved and highly publicized in october of 2013.

Council did not approve 3 stops. Council approved "extending the Bloor-Danforth line along the McCowan Road corridor to Sheppard Avenue East subject to approval of the final alignment through an Environmental Assessment".

 

[innsertnamehere]

*sighs*

Ok. Sure. You know what I meant.

 

[wopchop]

TheTigerMaster
The Scarborough Subway is looking increasingly troubled
In response to the negative impact that SmartTrack will have on the Line 2 extension, the scope of the project has been expanded east to Markham Road

I don't think that this study with all of it's options means that it is "increasingly troubled".

It is their duty to look at all of the options. Tory and Council would be criticized pretty heavily if they didn't and just went ahead.

Short of some insane escalation in price, I think this means that the subway is a done deal. Even Munro admits a reversion to LRT is unlikely.

I don't think any option that involves reconfiguration of Kennedy (ie. using the SRT corridor) will make it through. It will eat up too much of the budget.

 

[innsertnamehere]

if you look at the options map, they will be looking at avoiding the reconfiguration of Kennedy but still using the SRT corridor by having a short tunnelled section after Kennedy.

Also, metrolinx looked at running the subway in the srt corridor including a rebuild of Kennedy and it came out as something right around the same price as the council plan.

 

[wopchop]

if you look at the options map, they will be looking at avoiding the reconfiguration of Kennedy but still using the SRT corridor by having a short tunnelled section after Kennedy.

Also, metrolinx looked at running the subway in the srt corridor including a rebuild of Kennedy and it came out as something right around the same price as the council plan.

Ah, interesting. For some reason I thought that it was deemed not cost-effective.

Still, seems like a risky option. Re-designing the Kennedy interchange of ECLRT, Subway, and GO Rail raises a lot of cost and schedule risks, IMO.

You also have the costs of SRT replacement buses to consider. What's the cost of that?

 

[Rainforest]

My thoughts on the alignment:

SRT1/SRT2: Runs in the current SRT corridor. SRT2 appears to run in the corridor originally planned for Scarborough LRT. This would likely be the cheapest of all options, but usage would likely be the lowest of all options, since it runs right on top of SmartTrack. Things to consider are:
- Kennedy Station will have to be reconfigured in such a way that the tracks run north/south (right now they run east/west)

SRT1 would require a new Kennedy station, whereas SRT2 is an attempt to retain the existing station and then turn sharply back and use the SRT corridor. Although, turns needed for SRT2 may be too tight.

- The elevated section near Ellesmere would need to be rebuilt.

Definitely. And that won't be easy, given that subway requires much wider turns and smaller grades than either LRT or ICTS.

- Fitting stations for both SmartTrack and the Line 2 extension at Lawrence East and Ellesmere would be a challenge.

That's a concern, too.

Midland: This stip is almost all low density residential and commercial. There's not much in the area to attract usage. Ridership on this segment will likely be low due it proximity to SmartTrack.

But it could add density; sometimes it easier to rebuild a commercial area than a stable residential neighborhood.

McCowan alignment is likely better, but I would not dismiss Midland right away.

Bellamy/Markham: Almost all low density industrial and industrial/commercial. Costs would be significantly higher than the current McCowan alignment. However, it is far enough east that it might have the usage to justify a subway (probabl

I am very skeptical of these two options. They mean not only higher costs and tighter turns, but also added travel time, and that might prompt some of the riders to skip the extension altogether and make their way to Kennedy on a bus. Extra pain for no gain.