Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[sixrings]

Sorry I forgot about eglinton west although I had no problem with it as an at grade lrt. I guess if the good people of Scarborough couldn’t be disrespected with at grade transit surely his people couldn’t either. Again I’m happy something is being built. But as miller’s plans were cancelled and an eglinton west subway was once filled in. Shovel ready doesn’t mean anything until it passes a financial point of no return.

 

[JBR]

The Tree Clearing process for the Eglinton West tunnel bore launch shaft has already begin. The commencement of the construction of the tunnel bore shaft proper will begin this summer for both SSE and Eglinton West. Shovels are quite literally hitting the ground.

Yep. And they’ve sent out RFQ for Ontario Line. SSE has started, underground utilities are currently being moved along the route

 

[ARG1]

Sorry I forgot about eglinton west although I had no problem with it as an at grade lrt. I guess if the good people of Scarborough couldn’t be disrespected with at grade transit surely his people couldn’t either. Again I’m happy something is being built. But as miller’s plans were cancelled and an eglinton west subway was once filled in. Shovel ready doesn’t mean anything until it passes a financial point of no return.

Since these are being built with P3s, a repeat of Mike Harris is practically impossible. Once the financial close for the tunneling happens later this year and the shovels hit the ground, cancelling it will be an absolutely nightmare even for the biggest fans of austerity. Not to mention, the tunneling will be much farther along by the time the next elections roll around than what we had with Eglinton West so if the next premier chooses to cancel the projects, the amount of backfilling that would be needed would be way more than what Harris did.

 

[Amare]

Taking people away from the drl file just furthers my point. Tory had no interest in building any expensive transit. And he did everything he could to slow the process to inflate costs and to hopefully get it cancelled. Meanwhile he managed to get the inexpensive projects comparatively speaking up and going. Eglinton and finch.

I'm not sure where you're going with that point. Tory wanted to build the stuff, but was too scared to find any city funds to pay up for anything and would just ultimately put them on the never ending "Approved but Unfunded" list of projects.

He practically volunteered and put the city back in responsibility to build both the Eglinton West/East LRT extensions, until Doug came along and ripped it back so he could build the underground Eglinton West LRT extension. The city is still responsible for the Eglinton East LRT extension thanks to him, and originally it was the province's responsibility.

When he couldn't find the funds to build the Eglinton East LRT, that's where the Eglinton East Bus Priority lanes started to float it's head around. That's supposed to be a "temporary measure" until the city can build the Eglinton East LRT.

I'll give him credit for supporting the Crosstown LRT and Finch West LRT, but i'm sorry he just screwed up Scarborough severely.

 

[sixrings]

I think he was / is incompetent, unfortunately. Not incompetent across-the-board; he managed many aspects of his mayoral role fairly well.

But in those two cases, SSE and SmartTrack, he would have to either devote a fair amount of his own time, go into all details, and get it right. Or, find a reliable technical expert who can do that for him. And he didn't do either.

Cost was certainly a factor, but not an excuse. He didn't have to assemble all funding from scratch. He had the city's SSE surtax voted for before he took the office, as well as substantial provincial and federal funding commitments. Still not enough? He could alter the scope of SmartTrack, he could look at partly surface / elevated options for SSE. Potentially, he could try combining SmartTrack with DRL (using mainline rail for DRL), and he could evaluate the so-called SmartSpur (SmartTrack with a branch straight to STC).

Perhaps one could have tried all of the above and still not succeed, but he certainly didn't explore all options.

In my experience people who are competent or good at most things are rarely inept at anything they are put in charge of. Competent people realize they are out of their element and enlist experts to help them in the things they are not good at. The fact that John Tory is above average in pretty much every area but this area is where I draw my conclusion that he simply had no interest in these projects getting off the ground.

 

[Rainforest]

In my experience people who are competent or good at most things are rarely inept at anything they are put in charge of. Competent people realize they are out of their element and enlist experts to help them in the things they are not good at. The fact that John Tory is above average in pretty much every area but this area is where I draw my conclusion that he simply had no interest in these projects getting off the ground.

That's possible, but makes it even more unfortunate then.

 

[MisterF]

Then you have the Ontario Line which while it is similar to the DRL, still uses a brand new allignment, design, and is greatly expanded over the DRL

No it isn't. The DRL was to go up to Sheppard for maximum line 1 relief, with DRL North planning well advanced, following right on the heels of DRL South. The length of the DRL and Ontario line are very similar.

 

[nfitz]

No it isn't. The DRL was to go up to Sheppard for maximum line 1 relief, with DRL North planning well advanced, following right on the heels of DRL South. The length of the DRL and Ontario line are very similar.

I think he means they expanded the trains from 150 metres to 80 metres, while widening them from 3.3 metres to 3 metres.

 

[syn]

All will have shovels in the ground this year or next except for Yonge north; the tender is already out for SSE.

I'm pretty sure the Ontario Line is scheduled to begin construction in 2023.

These are not shovel ready projects - and it doesn't really change the fact that previous 'shovel ready' projects were canceled at great expense.

 

[ARG1]

I'm pretty sure the Ontario Line is scheduled to begin construction in 2023.

These are not shovel ready projects - and it doesn't really change the fact that previous 'shovel ready' projects were canceled at great expense.

I feel like I'm sounding like a broken record at this point, but the DRL was not "shovel ready". Months before its cancellation, Metrolinx were still suggesting using rolling stock that wasn't TRs on the line.

No it isn't. The DRL was to go up to Sheppard for maximum line 1 relief, with DRL North planning well advanced, following right on the heels of DRL South. The length of the DRL and Ontario line are very similar.

DRL South had a planned opening date of 2030, which is the same as the Ontario Line. RLN was at best going to open 2037-2040. No need to grossly inflate how much work was actually done.

 

[allengeorge]

I don’t think the OL is shovel ready. Only the RFQ is going out. Have they started preliminary works yet?

SSE and EWLRT are going forward. What’s happening with the Yonge North extension. That’s had almost no planning, right?

At any rate - as much as I dislike Ford, I have to say that there’s will to get some of these lines built - and that’s been sorely lacking in the province and the city for a decade.

 

[sixrings]

I don’t think the OL is shovel ready. Only the RFQ is going out. Have they started preliminary works yet?

SSE and EWLRT are going forward. What’s happening with the Yonge North extension. That’s had almost no planning, right?

At any rate - as much as I dislike Ford, I have to say that there’s will to get some of these lines built - and that’s been sorely lacking in the province and the city for a decade.

I must say I don’t hate Doug fords government where as I absolutely loathed rob fords mayor term.

 

[MisterF]

DRL South had a planned opening date of 2030, which is the same as the Ontario Line. RLN was at best going to open 2037-2040. No need to grossly inflate how much work was actually done.

And when is the Ontario line extension to Sheppard opening?

DRL South was set to open in 2029. If you believe the overly optimistic opening date for the OL then you have to believe the overly optimistic opening date of the DRL too.

Whatever way you want to spin in, the fact remains that the planning for both phases of the DRL was much more advanced than the planning for the Ontario line. There's no reason why the DRL North couldn't have opened in the early 2030s if it hadn't been cancelled.

 

[sixrings]

And when is the Ontario line extension to Sheppard opening?

DRL South was set to open in 2029. If you believe the overly optimistic opening date for the OL then you have to believe the overly optimistic opening date of the DRL too.

Whatever way you want to spin in, the fact remains that the planning for both phases of the DRL was much more advanced than the planning for the Ontario line. There's no reason why the DRL North couldn't have opened in the early 2030s if it hasn't been cancelled.

I have no idea why Ford didn’t just use the drl plan other then him wanting to put his own name on something.

 

[Northern Light]

I don’t think the OL is shovel ready. Only the RFQ is going out. Have they started preliminary works yet?

The only works at this point are some core-sampling; and surveying.

I ran into a crew doing some surveying for the O/L the other day..............

At any rate - as much as I dislike Ford, I have to say that there’s will to get some of these lines built - and that’s been sorely lacking in the province and the city for a decade.

Is there? Hmmm; maybe..................but at this stage there's only rhetoric and the light side of spending.