Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[nfitz]

Undoubtfully, they do!

The concern is, of course, the opportunity cost. Something built instead of that subway for the same money, could have made even more riders happy.

Agreed. Which is why they should have spent the money on the Sheppard subway on the first phase of the DRL.

And they should spend much of the $2.5 billion on the Scarborough subway on a DRL - and instead go back to the original $180 million plan to simply modernize the SRT and extend the existing platforms.

 

[coffey1]

Agreed. Which is why they should have spent the money on the Sheppard subway on the first phase of the DRL.

And they should spend much of the $2.5 billion on the Scarborough subway on a DRL - and instead go back to the original $180 million plan to simply modernize the SRT and extend the existing platforms.

The fact some of you fight against building the Scarborough subway & the DRL together is all that's wrong with this City. It's what causes a polarizing Mayor to be elected. I mean your comment says it all take away Scarborough funding to build a line that most dont even like to begin with so we can feed Downtown's growth.

Hey im all for the DRL but let's grow the City in a somewhat fair manner. And stop neglecting the outside area to keep feeding the beast. We need to do both.

Or maybe we should remove all the existing subway stops that were built upon ORIGINAL ridership models which are less than STC's is today so people in Scarborough can ride there crappy RT and get into the financial area of the City in a timely and fair manner.

Or we can keep pretending the original subway lines & stops were all build around data & not Politics. Im all for LRT if it connects to the current system in a fair manner & is built in lengths that does not segregate large areas of the City.

 

[darth_freeman]

As are Victoria Park and Warden. Etobicoke has 4 subway stops and Scarborough has 3. Basically the same. But at least Etobicoke tried to put their downtown at the subway rather than at a mall far from mass transit.

Scarborough also has about double the population of Etobicoke. Etobicoke's subway also basically covers the entire width of the city. Scarborough's barely reaches one quarter.

Etobicoke has wasted a potential waterfront jewel with its Humber Bay condo jungle. Scarboro was apparently too smart to let developers destroy its shoreline.
- Paul

Scarborough's waterfront is just really expensive single family homes. Isn't Etobicoke's idea better by letting many enjoy the waterfront?

 

[kEiThZ]

Scarborough also has about double the population of Etobicoke. Etobicoke's subway also basically covers the entire width of the city. Scarborough's barely reaches one quarter.

Yeah, I don't get the comparison to Etobicoke. Kipling and Islington are far more accessible to north Etobicoke than Vic Park, Warden and Kennedy are to northern Scarborough. The biggest argument for the Scarborough Subway is simply that most of that ridership can be serviced with two subway stops. Just look at the stats. Most of the ridership is SC or Lawrence East. And McCowan and Ellesmere are effectively in the SC catchment area.

Scarborough's waterfront is just really expensive single family homes.

Scarborough Bluffs? Guildwood Park?

 

[Palma]

Scarborough also has about double the population of Etobicoke. Etobicoke's subway also basically covers the entire width of the city. Scarborough's barely reaches one quarter.



Scarborough's waterfront is just really expensive single family homes. Isn't Etobicoke's idea better by letting many enjoy the waterfront?

Scarborough had it right. Blame the developers who built those tall condos right at the lake edge at Queen Quay and how they destroyed that view.

And what about houses onLake Promenade in Etobicoke?

 

[crs1026]

Yeah, I don't get the comparison to Etobicoke. Kipling and Islington are far more accessible to north Etobicoke than Vic Park, Warden and Kennedy are to northern Scarborough.

A long bus ride is a long bus ride. The Subway does not serve Dixon or Rexdale or Jamestown.

Scarborough's waterfront is just really expensive single family homes. Isn't Etobicoke's idea better by letting many enjoy the waterfront?

Try finding a parking spot at Humber Bay on weekends. (Better still, try getting there on transit) The pathways are about to be redesigned and relaid - because the volume of use has worn them out. It's a very small amount of parkland for the number of people who use it. The bikeway is a success, yes. As is the new artificial harbour. But - the vertical wall of condo's separates the lake from the area to the north. And the density is at the max. With Christie's yet to be developed.

- Paul

 

[coffey1]

A long bus ride is a long bus ride. The Subway does not serve Dixon or Rexdale or Jamestown.

Scarborough & Etobicoke should work together to fill out the remaining neglected area with transit. Although as mentioned Scarborough is basically double the population and larger in mass. In addition Etobicoke has a more central subway & more stops, Etobicoke even was a waterfront streetcar... Scarborough nothing

Saying that I agree fully that neglected areas in Etobicoke need to become a transit priority as well. Scarborough isn't requesting subway to it's priority areas, or non business areas. Just connect it's core to Toronto's backbone where the RT ridership is already higher than 70% of the current subway stop locations & that using a rickety RT no one likes.

When you add the growth from developments around the new subway stop locations on top of the more efficient & convenient subway, Scarborough Center's ridership will be thru the roof. And yes more support for the DRL. But it should not be one or the other.

 

[WislaHD]

When you add the growth from developments around the new subway stop locations on top of the more efficient & convenient subway, Scarborough Center's ridership will be thru the roof. And yes more support for the DRL. But it should not be one or the other.

What subway station? The single one at STC? It's not like the current SRT stations encouraged any development around them.

Besides, and this is a lesson painfully learned with Sheppard, ridership comes from connecting feeder bus routes not from condos. As the experience of Sheppard reveals, condo dwellers in the inner-city suburbs prefer to use their car.

 

[coffey1]

What subway station? The single one at STC? It's not like the current SRT stations encouraged any development around them.

Besides, and this is a lesson painfully learned with Sheppard, ridership comes from connecting feeder bus routes not from condos. As the experience of Sheppard reveals, condo dwellers in the inner-city suburbs prefer to use their car.

You nailed it. The SRT failed to attract development. Say no more.

Scarborough subway stations have not been decided yet. Don't be shocked to see atleast 2 around STC & McCowan. They say 1 so the downtown rowdies, media & politicos can take a breath & feel like they've won something in such an overblown fight. If Rosedale, Summerhill, Glencairn, Castlefrank, Chester (approx 33,000 rider/day total) can each get a stop with that putrid ridership surely Scarborough center should have more than 1. I mean all those stop together don't match the current McCowan and STC stop ridership on the RT (approx. 33,000). And we don't even like the RT out here . Just wait to see the ridership on the subway especially of there is a feeder LRT network one day into STC & the development improvement is certain to increase.

 

[WislaHD]

You nailed it. The SRT failed to attract development. Say no more.

Scarborough subway stations have not been decided yet. Don't be shocked to see atleast 2 around STC & McCowan. They say 1 so the downtown rowdies, media & politicos can take a breath & feel like they've won something in such an overblown fight. If Rosedale, Summerhill, Glencairn, Castlefrank, Chester (approx 33,000 rider/day total) can each get a stop with that putrid ridership surely Scarborough center should have more than 1. I mean all those stop together don't match the current McCowan and STC stop ridership on the RT (approx. 33,000). And we don't even like the RT out here . Just wait to see the ridership on the subway especially of there is a feeder LRT network one day into STC & the development improvement is certain to increase.

I hate to break it to you, but Rosedale, Summerhill, Glencairn, Castlefrank and Chester don't have one connecting bus route in between them. They generate 33,000 riders combined from purely walk-in traffic.

STC+McCowan generates 33,000 with half of Scarborough's bus routes gerrymandered to reach Scarborough Town Centre. The optics are not good for the Scarborough subway.

Besides, I would like to point out that in the future with a Relief Line built all the way to Don Mills and Sheppard, that for many in Scarborough it would actually be quicker to bus (or take Eglinton Crosstown) to Don Mills and go downtown than it would be to board the Line 2 extension. This change in commuting behaviour (along with whatever upgrades happen to the Stouffville/SmartTrack corridor) will greatly change ridership numbers for the Line 2 extension.

 

[Palma]

I hate to break it to you, but Rosedale, Summerhill, Glencairn, Castlefrank and Chester don't have one connecting bus route in between them. They generate 33,000 riders combined from purely walk-in traffic.

STC+McCowan generates 33,000 with half of Scarborough's bus routes gerrymandered to reach Scarborough Town Centre. The optics are not good for the Scarborough subway.

Besides, I would like to point out that in the future with a Relief Line built all the way to Don Mills and Sheppard, that for many in Scarborough it would actually be quicker to bus (or take Eglinton Crosstown) to Don Mills and go downtown than it would be to board the Line 2 extension. This change in commuting behaviour (along with whatever upgrades happen to the Stouffville/SmartTrack corridor) will greatly change ridership numbers for the Line 2 extension.

Well there is a bus that runs along Glencarin that stops in front of the station same as where other drivers are parked waiting to pick up passengers and then travels east to bathurst where it goes north on bathurst and then i do not know its exact route

 

[coffey1]

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I hate to break it to you, but Rosedale, Summerhill, Glencairn, Castlefrank and Chester don't have one connecting bus route in between them. They generate 33,000 riders combined from purely walk-in traffic.

STC+McCowan generates 33,000 with half of Scarborough's bus routes gerrymandered to reach Scarborough Town Centre. The optics are not good for the Scarborough subway.

Besides, I would like to point out that in the future with a Relief Line built all the way to Don Mills and Sheppard, that for many in Scarborough it would actually be quicker to bus (or take Eglinton Crosstown) to Don Mills and go downtown than it would be to board the Line 2 extension. This change in commuting behaviour (along with whatever upgrades happen to the Stouffville/SmartTrack corridor) will greatly change ridership numbers for the Line 2 extension.

Hate to break it to you most of Scarborough is no where near Don Mills. Actually most of us live no where near a Smarttrack stop. But thanks for reminding us to take the bus to your subway.

Behavior will change. The SSE ridership is already supported better than the majority of current subways stops. And whether you walk in or came on a bus doesn't matter. The walk in number will certainly go up heavily around these stops in the years that follow.

If anything the low ridership stops built around elite detached housing areas in the core could be removed since it's OK for everyone else to take long bus rides. Im sure they could whether walk a bit further or take a 5 minute bus. It would speed up the commutes of those already suffering.

I would not be surprised to see the SSE ridership more than double what it is now on the RT even with Smarttrack. And once it's built it'll be one of the busiest stops and at the end of a line. Go figure.

Smarttrack replaces the RT stops of the lowest ridership in Scarborough and wont be Scarborough's "Yonge line" as the Metroland Propaganda article states. The line goes through no mans land & aside from Kennedy & Eglinton becoming a large transit hub the other stops are just along the route to Markham.

 

[WislaHD]

Hate to break it to you most of Scarborough is no where near Don Mills. Actually most of us live no where near a Smarttrack stop. But thanks for reminding us to take the bus to your subway

Most of Scarborough is also no where near the Scarborough Subway alignment, alas.

Northern Scarborough will continue to bus it to Yonge, as will Western Scarborough in the future. Southern Scarborough is nowhere near the subway to STC, and Eastern Scarborough will take Crosstown East straight to Kennedy Station. We are building a subway to STC to benefit just a very small portion of Scarberians in Central Scarborough, intentionally ignoring and depriving actual destinations like Centennial College and Malvern of transit all the while.

The rather insignificant (you said it yourself, the current subway system's stations with the lowest daily ridership combined equal to greater ridership than STC) ridership levels will be cannibalized further by GO-RER and future phases of the Relief Line. And now, we aren't even getting a Lawrence stop.

Scarborough really does get the short stick.

 

[Johnny Au]

There is another bus that runs quite close to Glencairn station: 109 Ranee.

 

[coffey1]

Most of Scarborough is also no where near the Scarborough Subway alignment, alas.

Northern Scarborough will continue to bus it to Yonge, as will Western Scarborough in the future. Southern Scarborough is nowhere near the subway to STC, and Eastern Scarborough will take Crosstown East straight to Kennedy Station. We are building a subway to STC to benefit just a very small portion of Scarberians in Central Scarborough, intentionally ignoring and depriving actual destinations like Centennial College and Malvern of transit all the while.

The rather insignificant (you said it yourself, the current subway system's stations with the lowest daily ridership combined equal to greater ridership than STC) ridership levels will be cannibalized further by GO-RER and future phases of the Relief Line. And now, we aren't even getting a Lawrence stop.

Scarborough really does get the short stick.

Actually the STC stop will be the most central stop in Scarborough & ridership will be HIGH compared to the rest of the system. Malvern should get some form of LRT whether a crosstown extension or spur from the STC subway. The Scar-Durham BRT can go through progress to Centennial College & I agree it's absurd Lawrence doesn't have a stop. But that has more to do with keeping downtown Politicians happy that they're damaging the line.

So if we build what is proposed it's basically just Malvern which will be the last leg needed to provide Scarborough a well integrated transit network. But again it's just a proposal so who knows. Aside from Malvern getting left out this plan is certainly better than the previous funded LRT hack that was being forced.