Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Streety McCarface]

Do we even know if they are planning Eglinton continuous through Kennedy Station. I thought the circa 2010 plan was for Eglinton from the East, Eglinton from the West, and SRT from the north to all end at Kennedy Station?

I would imagine so. While some trains may turn back at Kennedy due to full running to Mt Dennis (or Pearson) being unnecessary, it really makes no sense to make people transfer there, there's not enough room in the station to handle that many people.

 

[OneCity]

Do we even know if they are planning Eglinton continuous through Kennedy Station. I thought the circa 2010 plan was for Eglinton from the East, Eglinton from the West, and SRT from the north to all end at Kennedy Station?

That's one of the optimizations in the current re-design and another benefit of of the SSE.

 

[syn]

Don't know about above psoter, but politics aside GO-ALRT (though not strictly ICTS) was a damned good program. I'd be very comfortable conceptually with ICTS so long as elevated is allowed and we aren't duplicating transit city 1 for 1.

Along the existing SRT? Yes, since it pretty much guarantees grade separation and high floor platforms. Of course, my fiscally liberal preference is a subway, but I can settle for ICTS upgrades along Line 3. Eglinton East makes sense as an LRT because the crosstown is an LRT and no transfer is required.

That's fair - but in terms of expansion I meant a network across Scarborough. Would Scarborough support elevated rail beyond the current RT and perhaps an extension to Malvern?

 

[BurlOak]

That's fair - but in terms of expansion I meant a network across Scarborough. Would Scarborough support elevated rail beyond the current RT and perhaps an extension to Malvern?

I'm reminded of this article from 2010 - it was in several papers.
Elevated trains: Metrolinx offers subway alternative
Nobody complained about an elevated solution. the article does imply that Metrolinx officials (i.e. provincial Liberal government) was against it. The MOU said they would consider elevated through the Don Valley and near Kennedy - which is pretty much the entire thing. Somebody wanted this entire project to fail. With Stintz and Metrolinx in charge of the file in 2011 - it just quietly disappeared.
I also note that public pressure force the on-street portion through Black Creek to become elevated. I also note that the most heavily built up area of the SRT is at STC - where it's elevated.

 

[syn]

I'm reminded of this article from 2010 - it was in several papers.
Elevated trains: Metrolinx offers subway alternative
Nobody complained about an elevated solution. the article does imply that Metrolinx officials (i.e. provincial Liberal government) was against it. The MOU said they would consider elevated through the Don Valley and near Kennedy - which is pretty much the entire thing. Somebody wanted this entire project to fail. With Stintz and Metrolinx in charge of the file in 2011 - it just quietly disappeared.
I also note that public pressure force the on-street portion through Black Creek to become elevated. I also note that the most heavily built up area of the SRT is at STC - where it's elevated.

I think you're reading a different article than the one you posted.

Metrolinx officials met with Ford to discuss options like elevated transit. This was in the first year of his mayorship, so the idea clearly didn't resonate with him. He continued with his SUBWAYS SUBWAYS SUBWAYS rhetoric.

 

[OneCity]

But that wasn't Ford's goal.

His goal was to end the "War on the Car".

For him transit was nothing more than a way to make things easier for drivers and a political tool to appeal to his base. It had nothing to do with actually expanding transit in a sensible and responsible way that was best for transit users.

Pretending otherwise is revisionist nonsense.

It was many things. "Transfer City" which was certainly about the I'll placed existing and new transfer. And yes the war on the car.

You don't expand public transit on such a way to create further congestion or make the most efficient form of transit in the area worse off. Removing vehicle lanes to build cycling and local public transit routes it absolutely stupid planning. Its absurd.

There was a lot of details to attack and lots of support for them to gain from this highly questionable plan. And the Fords along with many others during and post Robs Mayoral run took full advantage. The aftermath of a few outide Politicians refusing to work with the calls for better connectivity has been the most damaging, moreso to their own cause. After wasting almost 2 decades of pushing a terrible transit plan I have no issue with Doug pushing ahead with boring machines in the ground for a better future to build around. Transit City set the City back dearly and it's past time to build

 

[Bureaucromancer]

That's fair - but in terms of expansion I meant a network across Scarborough. Would Scarborough support elevated rail beyond the current RT and perhaps an extension to Malvern?

In ridership terms, probably not. But strategically whatever east/west line goes in, be it Sheppard, Ellesmere, 401, etc would be a very good candidate for elevated construction.

 

[BurlOak]

But that wasn't Ford's goal.

His goal was to end the "War on the Car".

1. Ford wanted transit out of the way from the cars.
2. Transit proponents should have wanted cars out of the way of transit.
3. Transit City proponents wanted transit to impede cars - resulting in slower cars and slower transit.

If only we had more people in the 2nd group we could have easily found some consensus.

 

[Voltz]

1. Ford wanted transit out of the way from the cars.
2. Transit proponents should have wanted cars out of the way of transit.
3. Transit City proponents wanted transit to impede cars - resulting in slower cars and slower transit.

If only we had more people in the 2nd group we could have easily found some consensus.

You mean like what would have happened with Transit City? With buses removed from car lanes and replaced with LRT's in their own lanes, taking cars and transit out of the way of each other? But which you seem to be against.

 

[Voltz]

That's one of the optimizations in the current re-design and another benefit of of the SSE.

Your non-stop parade of factually incorrect statements never cease to amaze me,

The previous design for Kennedy Station absolutely did allow for through running from the Crosstown to both the SLRT and EELRT.

 

[robmausser]

You mean like what would have happened with Transit City? With buses removed from car lanes and replaced with LRT's in their own lanes, taking cars and transit out of the way of each other? But which you seem to be against.

Not only that but on Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton in the above ground portion there are right of ways that are city owned grass curbs that are there specifically to expand the size of the roadway.

So under no circumstance would the LRTs take up more lanes of traffic.

Also the Scarborough LRT wasnt even on the roads why is that being discussed here.

 

[BurlOak]

Your non-stop parade of factually incorrect statements never cease to amaze me,

The previous design for Kennedy Station absolutely did allow for through running from the Crosstown to both the SLRT and EELRT.

From Steve Munro.
Reviving the Scarborough LRT Proposal (Updated)

Transfer moves to/from the Crosstown East line would require a walk at concourse level and moves up/down to subway/Crosstown level.

This design did not provide for through service from the main Crosstown line to Crosstown East, and the link between the Crosstown level and the Scarborough line was intended only for carhouse trips, not as a regular through operation.

 

[Voltz]

From Steve Munro.
Reviving the Scarborough LRT Proposal (Updated)

Sigh,

The stations for the Crosstown and Crosstown East were to be lined up end to end with each other, there is no possible way it would have ended up being built with the tracks not connected to each other.

And nothing about the layout of the connecting tracks from the Crosstown to the SLRT would have prevented regular through service.

 

[OneCity]

So under no circumstance would the LRTs take up more lanes of traffic.

Also the Scarborough LRT wasnt even on the roads why is that being discussed here.

Even with the much needed updates currently ongoing with the EELRT we are still losing 2 lanes of traffic. Atleast were now tunnelling Morningside Crossing. It's already quite congested in these corners and Durham just started it's rapid growth. Removimg 2 lanes with the LRT would have royally screwed up the area. The whole plan was and absolute joke in transit planning.

We're discussing it because Ford called out various aspects of the Transit City plan. Not only the transfer in the SSE or just the war on car as another poster claimed.

 

[OneCity]

Sigh,

The stations for the Crosstown and Crosstown East were to be lined up end to end with each other, there is no possible way it would have ended up being built with the tracks not connected to each other.

And nothing about the layout of the connecting tracks from the Crosstown to the SLRT would have prevented regular through service.

Not according to the design. Thankfully the previous design is irrelevant.