Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[MisterF]

Oh good, the Dragon's Den lady is back with a newly "invenuted" subway system! Those graphics display the design prowess of a Geocities page circa 1996. Maybe add some sound effects and spinning gifs, that'll really get the message across.

 

[BurlOak]

Oh good, the Dragon's Den lady is back with a newly "invenuted" subway system! Those graphics display the design prowess of a Geocities page circa 1996. Maybe add some sound effects and spinning gifs, that'll really get the message across.

I have had some bad graphics over the years so I can forgive that. I would just like to better understand.

• Maybe she has something and it's just not being presented clearly.
• Maybe its somewhat close to GO RER with some nuance.
• Maybe with some modification it could be made better.

I'm reminded of the combined ECLRT/SRT. In 2010 Ford wanted SRT connected to the City. His first thought was to extend the B-D. After some discussions, they agreed on the connected ECLRT/SRT. Planners and experts were supposed to look for ways of improving this by elevating portions above the Don Valley (which has 2 branches there) and in the Kennedy area. Unfortunately, they decided to sabotage the plan instead of understand the benefits that it could bring.
I'm also reminded of the ECLRT through Leslie. The "experts" said it had to be in the median and it was the public that raised the south side alignment. There again the outside comment was ridicules and we are left with an ECLRT that does not accommodate a DRL.

• Do I think there is a better plan that has not been raised by transit "experts" - YES.
• Do I think this is that better plan - so far NO, but I need to understand it better and maybe with some modifications it might be.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Mods. Seriously?

Resolved.

MoD

 

[BurlOak]

Mods. Seriously?

@AlvinofDiaspar

What?

I can see this maybe belongs in the Fantasy Thread, but I don't think there is anything offensive that warrants any type of discipline.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What?

I can see this maybe belongs in the Fantasy Thread, but I don't think there is anything offensive that warrants any type of discipline.

Spamming and overbearing a thread with a mix of oversized graphics, all caps posting and the like is certain grounds for banning. We know where this poster is going.

MoD

 

[OneCity]

What?

I can see this maybe belongs in the Fantasy Thread, but I don't think there is anything offensive that warrants any type of discipline.

You should PM her to continue discussion to see if you can parse thru the missing details and see if there is anything worth bringing it forward in the appropriate fantasy, RER or merits thread. There might be a bit of smoke here when it comes to Ford, also clear she has put in work and if there is anything of merit in her plan it would be helpful to have someone who can deliver these details in a more tactful manner. As hard as some are on her in this forum, you have to agree the presentation is atrocious.

 

[BurlOak]

You should PM her to continue discussion to see if you can parse thru the missing details and see if there is anything worth bringing it forward in the appropriate fantasy, RER or merits thread. There might be a bit of smoke here when it comes to Ford, also clear she has put in work and if there is anything of merit in her plan it would be helpful to have someone who can deliver these details in a more tactful manner. As hard as some are on her in this forum, you have to agree the presentation is atrocious.

I will wait the 7 days for her ban to be lifted.

No doubt her presentation was nowhere near great. But I thought she may have removed some of her duplicate graphic posts so she may have been coming around - I took those as inexperience from a new user.

 

[OneCity]

I will wait the 7 days for her ban to be lifted.

No doubt her presentation was nowhere near great. But I thought she may have removed some of her duplicate graphic posts so she may have been coming around - I took those as inexperience from a new user.

Hmmm rough. I could see she was specifically willing to discuss details of her plan with you. Shes not really new here and right or wrong she should have expected the reponse she recieved in this environment and been a bit more prepared to deliver her message. Seemed a bit like she wanted to trumpet her meetings with Ford more than discuss the fine details

Anyhow if there is anything to her work she'll clearly need a filter or translater to explain here so maybe you can communicate further and help her if there happens to be anything noteworthy.

 

[OneCity]

I will wait the 7 days for her ban to be lifted.

No doubt her presentation was nowhere near great. But I thought she may have removed some of her duplicate graphic posts so she may have been coming around - I took those as inexperience from a new user.

Further I doubt any other poster in this forum can claim to have direct line to such a powerful Poltician right now. If it's true they have met multiple times that's something pretty damn noteworthy which should be discussed in some location on a transit forum. Id be very interested to know if any details being taken seriously before writing her off completely. The Premier has also recently announced subways to Pickering so there is enough smoke if she is willing to talk details

 

[BurlOak]

Furthermore I doubt any other poster in this forum is claiming to have direct line to such a powerful Poltician right now. If it's true they have met multiple times that's something pretty damn noteworthy to be discussed in some location on a transit forum. Id be very interested to know if any details being taken seriously before writing her off completely. The Premier has also recently announced subways to Pickering so there is enough smoke if she is willing to talk details

I watched that Dragon's Den episode that someone made reference to a few pages back, and it was hard to follow her train of thought there as well.

That subway to Pickering comment by Ford, and her terminology was kind of suspicious.

A big problem is when the transit experts refused to cooperate with the politicians, then the politicians may start lending their ear to these potentially fly-by-night "experts".
The problem, as defined by much of Scarborough and the Fords, was to connect Scarborough (STC) to the core of Toronto with a RAPID transit system. It appears that not a single expert has actually seriously tried to do this.

 

[OneCity]

I watched that Dragon's Den episode that someone made reference to a few pages back, and it was hard to follow her train of thought there as well.

That subway to Pickering comment by Ford, and her terminology was kind of suspicious.

A big problem is when the transit experts refused to cooperate with the politicians, then the politicians may start lending their ear to these potentially fly-by-night "experts".
The problem, as defined by much of Scarborough and the Fords, was to connect Scarborough (STC) to the core of Toronto with a RAPID transit system. It appears that not a single expert has actually seriously tried to do this.

Chicken and the egg. Experts have been conceptually designing based on criteria set out by Governments and further they are looking to make a money as their priority therefor offering new solutions really isn't happening without being clearly requested up front. The criteria for transit building in this City has always been a bit off but seen as there are no real surprises in Keesmaats map it seems we finally close to a general consensus at the City level with RER, subway connectivity and improved local express bus, BRT/LRT that could be moved forward. So long as the Province deals with subways the City can focus on the more local routes which is far more manageable

By no means do I believe all the posters work is being taken too seriously by the Province, but there may be some RER details that have been ignored by the current process that could be helpful if better explained and may be why this government is listening if they feel they can garner some more votes in the 905 in a more cost effective manner. Three meetings with Ford indicates there might be something of value hiding somewhere deep inside those Picasso transit maps.

 

[MisterF]

I have had some bad graphics over the years so I can forgive that. I would just like to better understand.

• Maybe she has something and it's just not being presented clearly.
• Maybe its somewhat close to GO RER with some nuance.
• Maybe with some modification it could be made better.

I'm reminded of the combined ECLRT/SRT. In 2010 Ford wanted SRT connected to the City. His first thought was to extend the B-D. After some discussions, they agreed on the connected ECLRT/SRT. Planners and experts were supposed to look for ways of improving this by elevating portions above the Don Valley (which has 2 branches there) and in the Kennedy area. Unfortunately, they decided to sabotage the plan instead of understand the benefits that it could bring.
I'm also reminded of the ECLRT through Leslie. The "experts" said it had to be in the median and it was the public that raised the south side alignment. There again the outside comment was ridicules and we are left with an ECLRT that does not accommodate a DRL.

• Do I think there is a better plan that has not been raised by transit "experts" - YES.
• Do I think this is that better plan - so far NO, but I need to understand it better and maybe with some modifications it might be.

From what I could gather before the attempt started giving me a headache, she's proposing subway trains running every 5 minutes on the Stouffville line and others. It's unclear if she's considered the costs of the infrastructure to make that possible, like double tracking, station upgrades, grade separations, electrification, and signal upgrades. These are all upgrades that are underway for RER and necessary to run that kind of service. You can't just slap some trains down on the tracks and call it a subway.

I agree that there's a lot to criticize in the way transit is planned and built in Toronto. But Sharon Yetman isn't the solution.

Further I doubt any other poster in this forum can claim to have direct line to such a powerful Poltician right now. If it's true they have met multiple times that's something pretty damn noteworthy which should be discussed in some location on a transit forum. Id be very interested to know if any details being taken seriously before writing her off completely. The Premier has also recently announced subways to Pickering so there is enough smoke if she is willing to talk details

Anyone can claim that they they've met with the premier. This lady is just someone who has it in her head that she can solve all the city's transportation problems and she's no doubt been hounding politicians and transit agencies for years. She's probably written to the premier directly and might have even spoken with him at some point in the past (the Fords being famous for answering every phone call, etc.). I know the type. She probably believes that she has some sort of inside track or that the authorities are stealing her ideas. She thinks that he has influence far beyond reality. Trust me, she's nothing more than a thorn in the side of politicians and staff.

 

[OneCity]

From what I could gather before the attempt started giving me a headache, she's proposing subway trains running every 5 minutes on the Stouffville line and others. It's unclear if she's considered the costs of the infrastructure to make that possible, like double tracking, station upgrades, grade separations, electrification, and signal upgrades. These are all upgrades that are underway for RER and necessary to run that kind of service. You can't just slap some trains down on the tracks and call it a subway.

I agree that there's a lot to criticize in the way transit is planned and built in Toronto. But Sharon Yetman isn't the solution.


Anyone can claim that they they've met with the premier. This lady is just someone who has it in her head that she can solve all the city's transportation problems and she's no doubt been hounding politicians and transit agencies for years. She's probably written to the premier directly and might have even spoken with him at some point in the past (the Fords being famous for answering every phone call, etc.). I know the type. She probably believes that she has some sort of inside track or that the authorities are stealing her ideas. She thinks that he has influence far beyond reality. Trust me, she's nothing more than a thorn in the side of politicians and staff.

I agree for the most part but not convinced the meetings didn't occur.

 

[WislaHD]

Honest question.

Lets say we follow a scenario where Keesmaat is elected and she pulls City funding for SSE, stating that the province is determined to build it themselves.

Does Doug Ford move ahead with funding and building the SSE?

 

[BurlOak]

Honest question.

Lets say we follow a scenario where Keesmaat is elected and she pulls City funding for SSE, stating that the province is determined to build it themselves.

Does Doug Ford move ahead with funding and building the SSE?

It also depends on how smoothly the subway upload to the Province goes.
Ford can still claim that he won't give the money to TTC since they have proven to be poor project managers in these big construction projects.