Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

He was fully able to start with the DRL. Politics went to his head, period. We'd be closer to Phase I opening instead of post 2030s. There's plenty of blame to go around but a pet peeves of mine is minimizing Miller's actions. Sheppard East being a higher priority than the DRL is just as bad, just as nuts as doubling down on the 1 stop subway.

The overall plan now albeit not perfect but still very good and far better priority and integration than Millers plans. Even the Eglinton East (SMLRT) to UTSC should have had priority over Sheppard LRT. Feds are at the table with funding, the Province is in full support and might upload the subway entirely and all projects are into design. Toronto would be foolish to waste time and jeopardize this plan because of sour internal politics.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

He was fully able to start with the DRL. Politics went to his head, period. We'd be closer to Phase I opening instead of post 2030s. There's plenty of blame to go around but a pet peeves of mine is minimizing Miller's actions. Sheppard East being a higher priority than the DRL is just as bad, just as nuts as doubling down on the 1 stop subway.

Recall one of the criticism of TC at the time - a little bit of everything for everyone, and how it is about "priority neighbourhoods". Now politically he will probably had a hard time selling DRL to the province (nevermind the Feds), but that's his job.

AoD

 

[syn]

He was fully able to start with the DRL. Politics went to his head, period. We'd be closer to Phase I opening instead of post 2030s. There's plenty of blame to go around but a pet peeves of mine is minimizing Miller's actions. Sheppard East being a higher priority than the DRL is just as bad, just as nuts as doubling down on the 1 stop subway.

So was Ford. Tory too.

Why didn't they get it started?

 

[Cobra]

So was Ford. Tory too.

Why didn't they get it started?

Ford was just as wrong as Miller on the DRL.

 

[salsa]

Was quite amazing to watch how quickly the discussion pivoted to Miller as soon as that article was posted about a possible SRT shutdown because of SmartTrack. The left has been out of power for 8 years now, yet still some of the usual contributors here only focus on them.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

What he should have been doing was screaming and lobbying to fund projects actually supported by residents but he choose to get clever and inevitably the plan failed on actual support of people.

And what makes you think Transit City wasn't supported? It sure as hell wasn't a perfect plan, but it generally had more appeal than any of the proposed alternatives.

The fact that even Mayor Miller's political opponents continue to successfully push for Transit City, more than a decade after its introduction, should be a testament to it's political appeal, and more importantly, it's pragmatism. The plan recognizes that, while improved transit is needed across the city, building subways in every neighbourhood is not a realistic proposition.

 

[syn]

^Not only that, but Transit City did have a sort of 'DRL Lite' in the form of the Don Mills Line. Certainly didn't address the real problem, south of Bloor, but it wasn't completely ignored.

 

[dowlingm]

(Emphasis added)

It’s a bit of an inconvenient truth that Mayor Miller got more subways funded and under construction than any other mayor in Toronto’s history. Some 21 stations over 18 kilometres; more than a 25% increase in the size of the network

Ford and Tory combined have maybe managed the addition of a single subway stop.

Of course we can debate endlessly about if or how those subways should have been built. But it’s bloody ridiculous to act as if Miller was an ineffective transit leader. Heck, much of Tory’s transit plans are just rehashes of Miller-era proposals.

Let's not go crazy.

The Spadina Extension happened because Greg Sorbara was Liberal Finance Minister and because the Federal Tories wanted to look good in the outer 416/inner 905 battleground. The TTC ended up being saddled with the operating cost of the subway north of Steeles as a result of that deal.

Miller can have the credit for Crosstown, but if the political winds were different or he wanted to build a relief subway before the York extension? A much harder task than he was set.

 

[mdrejhon]

Now they have only thrown enough bones (York, Scarborough extensions) to finally even merely begin a real DRL EA without it being cancelled outright by political interference.

 

[amnesiajune]

Not only that, but Transit City did have a sort of 'DRL Lite' in the form of the Don Mills Line.

Don Mills was part of the unfunded second phase, and even if it did get funded and built somehow (despite numerous technical challenges) it wouldn't have taken many passengers off Yonge, because it was still an at-grade LRT, slower than the subway.

A lot of people seem to conveniently forget that half of Transit City was just lines drawn on a map for political reasons. Only three of the seven new lines ever got any funding (and one of them, Finch, lost its funding while Miller was still mayor). Jane and Don Mills would've been impossible to build as proposed, nobody ever figured out if Jane was even needed south of Eglinton, and Waterfront West was (and still is) just a small expansion of the streetcar network, filling in a gap between Roncesvalles and Exhibition Loop.

 

[syn]

Don Mills was part of the unfunded second phase, and even if it did get funded and built somehow (despite numerous technical challenges) it wouldn't have taken many passengers off Yonge, because it was still an at-grade LRT, slower than the subway.

A lot of people seem to conveniently forget that half of Transit City was just lines drawn on a map for political reasons. Only three of the seven new lines ever got any funding (and one of them, Finch, lost its funding while Miller was still mayor). Jane and Don Mills would've been impossible to build as proposed, nobody ever figured out if Jane was even needed south of Eglinton, and Waterfront West was (and still is) just a small expansion of the streetcar network, filling in a gap between Roncesvalles and Exhibition Loop.

I believe a portion of the Don Mills LRT line was to be tunneled.

No one is suggesting Transit City was perfect. There was obviously going to be more funding needed, and it didn't include a DRL.

But it did succeed in introducing rapid transit in high priority areas - a plan that had some support from planning experts, a plan that made a wise use of investment dollars to maximize coverage around the city.

None of this can be said about the SSE. If we're going to continually criticize Transit City for being politically driven, underfunded and short-sighted, how on earth can we support the SSE, which is far worse on all counts??

 

[amnesiajune]

I believe a portion of the Don Mills LRT line was to be tunneled.

That would've been inevitable, but in Transit City it was all at-grade, even on Pape.

But it did succeed in introducing rapid transit in high priority areas - a plan that had some support from planning experts, a plan that made a wise use of investment dollars to maximize coverage around the city.

Which high-priority areas? Again, Scarborough-Malvern, Don Mills and Jane were all unfunded. Don Mills and Jane were impossible to build as planned. Jane didn't have support from planning experts - some of them believe that the LRT should've ended at Eglinton. Drawing lines on a map for political reasons isn't "introducing rapid transit".

 

[syn]

Did you honestly expect them to build all of the lines at once??

Are we forgetting that the worst Mayor in Toronto's history, Rob Ford, canceled the entire thing, with Eglinton Line being the only one that made it through?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The Don Mills LRT was the dumbest, most short sighted component of Transit City

 

[TheTigerMaster]

(Emphasis added)Let's not go crazy.

The Spadina Extension happened because Greg Sorbara was Liberal Finance Minister and because the Federal Tories wanted to look good in the outer 416/inner 905 battleground. The TTC ended up being saddled with the operating cost of the subway north of Steeles as a result of that deal.

Miller can have the credit for Crosstown, but if the political winds were different or he wanted to build a relief subway before the York extension? A much harder task than he was set.

That's a fair point, but also completely immaterial to my argument. My point was to highlight the absurdity in claiming that Miller was somehow ineffective at expanding transit. Even if you only want to count a 10 km, 15 station portion of the Crosstown, that's more rapid transit added to the network than has been added in some 40 years. And that's heck of a lot more transit expansion than any of his successors have accomplished thus far, with Tory and Ford accomplishing the addition of perhaps one rapid transit station (if all goes according to plan)