syn
Senior Member
Yet we don't hear any demands for a Spadina Subway extension south of Bloor, to spare hard working downtown residents & students the horror of winter weather...
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Yet we don't hear any demands for a Spadina Subway extension south of Bloor, to spare hard working downtown residents & students the horror of winter weather...
Sakraycore
Active Member
syn
Senior Member
The streetcar line with a right of way?
What about people on Bay? Bathurst? People who live/work near Sherway Mall?
Would it make sense to address all of them first since Scarborough already has an RT?
If we built according to need, the subway system would be very, very different.
What about people on Bay? Bathurst? People who live/work near Sherway Mall?
Would it make sense to address all of them first since Scarborough already has an RT?
If we built according to need, the subway system would be very, very different.
Sakraycore
Active Member
OneCity
Senior Member
The stops that are eliminated (aside from Lawrence) are extremely low priority compared most other areas of Scarborough which all have to ride the bus to the subway. This gets many more important areas a shorter trip. Surely down the road there will be a need for a future cross City Centre LRT type line that likely runs to Malvern well after the subway is built. But unfortunately first we have to go back and lay the proper foundation which should have been done 50 years ago. It will take a long time to build a proper network around the subway and complete the inevitable subway loop which will follow, but hopefully there will be no more short sighted plans for Scarborough.
I agree it sucks for those minority riders who were lucky enough to have a stop at Midland and this part of Ellesmere but there should have never been stops here in the first place. The RT was joke in so many ways including route design and stop locations. What truly sucks is that it was actually built.
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Hopkins123
Senior Member
Like this perhaps, for starters:
If the Flying U Bloor-Danforth Line was built rather than straight across, DRL would be a moot concept (unless as a branched operation growing out from Pape Stn to the north). This would have left a surplus of monies available for westward expansion into Mississauga and eastward expansion to likely Morningside Ave by now via the path of the SRT, which itself would've never been built.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Because the average voter (obviously not on this site) doesnt give a hoot about what is under construction or planned. They want to know what the government has delivered in 4 years. And on the transit front, the Liberals haven't delivered enough to really make a tangible difference to voters. Not the in the GTA anyway. Ironically, their biggest transit successes for the election will be Ottawa and Kitchener. Those systems will be visible to a greater portion of their populations than TYSSE will be to the average Torontonian who's not a York U student.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
In addition to the STC bus terminal it should also have better bus ramps, particularly to avoid that dreaded McCowan and Ellesmere intersection waiting on those lights.
syn
Senior Member
Why shouldn't they??
syn
Senior Member
That may be the case...but I was speaking more to what they've actually funded and accomplished, rather than perception.
If everything was perception based then every government would get a failing grade on transit at election time.
syn
Senior Member
That's a huge 'aside'.
The result of this extension is that plenty of students may have to take more than one bus to get where they're going, and/or spend more time on the bus.
An LRT is a proper foundation - I think we need to get past the idea that the only 'proper' transit is a subway.
As an RT user I'd say it's a great line...and it's a good thing it was built.
Do you know why the RT wasn't shortsighted? Scarborough still doesn't have the density and ridership to support a subway...and that's with 2-3 stations already in Scarborough.
I'm going to choose to believe that Scarborough residents aren't this spoiled and short-sighted; that they can actually realize the benefit of having a useful piece of transit infrastructure that no other suburb has ever had the benefit of.
We used to build transit based on actual need, not fantasy. Now it's the opposite.
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OneCity
Senior Member
As I am also an RT user (& avoider). The line sucks and is oddly routed and disjointed from the main Toronto backbone. Anyway Lawrence is not an side. We are getting a stop on Lawrence and although Id prefer a subway stop because of the current subway route and the Smarttrack fare gamble but ST may actually end up being better for Scarborough, but that will be determined by the fare integration
Scarborough has very solid ridership for the subway compared to the rest of the network. Smarttrack has cannibalized the ridership for in between stops and SCC will be one of the most used stops on the network with or without Smarttrack. In any event the naysayers have been tuned out by the decision makers on all side and its beyond naïve to make a statement the previous transit was built out of need and not Politics. The only fantasy are those that think a transfer before SCC is even worth debating.
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syn
Senior Member
We'll have to disagree on that then - I find it no more disjointed than the Yonge Line is from the Bloor Line. It's simply a matter of perception.
As for ridership:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...the-scarborough-subwaydebate/article34270677/
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/06/16/putting-scarborough-subway-claims-to-the-test.html
Which of those numbers justify a subway?
pman
Senior Member
Cue the assertions that you can't trust anything you read about SSE in The Star and The Globe because they're anti-Scarborough. Or the old reliable argument that building transit isn't about moving the most incremental riders for the least cost, or servicing already developed areas, or relieving congestion that's already terrible and going to be a lot worse soon, it's about fairness for folks in Scarborough because they deserve a subway, and Warden and Kennedy don't count. Plus those pointy headed planners who claim SSE will result in a marginal reduction in travel times don't know anything about lived experience, as I believe our Mayor observed.
Rainforest
Senior Member
The lowest of recent SSE peak ridership estimates, 7,300 pphpd, still justifies a subway. There are few other corridors in this city whare you can get higher peak ridership. Nothing comes to mind other than the Relief Line, and Yonge North.
In a way, we wouldn't have this debate at all, if there was no alternative ROW available along the Uxbridge sub and the existing SRT guideway. The ridership of 7,300 pphpd requires a fully grade separate line. A street-median LRT will be at capacity trying to carry that volume, while a tunneled LRT would cost almost as much as a subway.